Mod to suppress lock dif damage in hardcore?

Hi,

Is there a mod to suppress the lock diff damage in hardcore mode when you drive on hard surfaces?
This is annoying and, I believe, unrealistic (although I've never driven a huge truck so I wouldn't know).

What would be realistic is to be unable to switch on/off 4wd and lock diff while driving. Again, I don't know about heavy truck in real life, but on the old family's land rover, you definitely need to stop to operate one of those two. Same for switching from high to low gears.

I could play in easy, but I would lose some difficulties (in particular degraded performance of damaged trucks, and wheel turning in off camber trails).

Thanks!

EDIT: IT TURNS OUT THAT LOCK DIF DAMAGE ON HARD SURFACE IS A REAL THING (see below) SO I STAND CORRECTED 🙂

last edited by minikeum
Community Moderator - Spintires

Using a steering wheel prevents it (for some reason)...

It's from 1958.
And there is no diff lock on it, I got confused. Only 4wd and low gear. Still very capable off road.

Damage from driving with the diff locked on hard surfaces is entirely unrealistic(unless we're talking accelerated tire wear). That's just not how it works in the real world...EVER. I understand putting it in the game for the added challenge of not being able to use it at all times. But if you're expecting that to apply in the real world you have no mechanical intelligence. What's 1000 times more likely to happen is damage from driving in 4WD(AS IN NOT AWD BUT REAL 4WD!) on hard surfaces. But limiting that in the game would make it unplayable.

BTW many vehicles have shift-on-the-fly into/out of 4WD(at any speed) capability. And can engage/disengage diff lock on-the-fly(but only below a certain speed). 4Low on-the-fly? Maybe with the vehicle just barely rolling. Otherwise it needs to be completely stopped, and/or with the driveshafts not spinning.

last edited by MudHappy

@MudHappy I can tell you that my jeep dont like to drive with the front diff locked, rear is possible but isn't really that good.

And when you turn on all wheel drive in this game your centerdiff is turned off by default, after you turn on the difflock your centerdiff get locked and thats bad on hard surface, so they are a kind of right with damage when difflock is on....

Correct me if I'm wrong.

@wrangmog Front diff locked is not going to steer well, hard surface or not. Rear diff locked is going to cause issues cornering, hard surfaces or not. There's no real possibility of any damage being caused by either being locked, hard surface or not. Except accelerated tire wear, especially on hard surfaces, from the lack of a differential causing the wheels to spin at the same speed when cornering.

I don't know for sure about there really being a center diff in this game. Or if it has a locker, or when/if it ever gets turned on or off. To me it seems as though there is a center diff, but that it's not lockable(as in ALWAYS off). The obvious differences between the front and rear wheels speeds indicate this to be true. And that doesn't appear to be affected by having the diff locked or unlocked. Whereas the axle diffs do appear to be locked when the diff lock is on, by looking at wheel speeds of the wheels on the left and right sides of the axles when the diff lock is on. So...so far as I can tell the only diff locks that get turned on and off in the game are the ones in the axles, not the transfer case(if it even has a diff in it to be lockable). Hence these vehicles all appear to be AWD without locking center diffs(but with front and rear axle locking diffs). The presence of a center diff, or rather a center diff that isn't locked, = AWD = NOT true 4WD/6WD/8WD/4x4/6x6/8x8. Even if there were a center diff and it was locked along with the diffs in the axles we're right back to where I started. If there's rubber on the wheels that's going to absorb all the damage.

Bottom line: Diff lock damage, OF ANY KIND, IS NOT a thing. What gives way is the rubber on the tires. The metal components of the drivetrain are MUCH stronger than the rubber. So if the tires are still on the wheels, you've got little(if anything) to worry about. And having the axle diffs locked actually prevents damage that can be caused to the drivetrain components by wind up/down of wheels being allowed to spin at greatly differing speeds. One wheel on an axle not spinning while the other spins at high speed, but then suddenly gains traction produces a massive strain on the drivetrain components(especially the differential). That type of thing is much less likely to happen if the wheels are both operating at the same speed(as with the axle's diff locked). A similar theory applies to having the center diff locked. Except the wind up/down would be front wheels vs. rear wheels. And the damage would likely occur to the center diff. Not very likely if the center diff is locked, and front and rear wheel speeds are in sync.

On the topic of the thread...

<TruckData
DiffLockType="Always" />

Added to the classes\trucks xml of whatever truck you want to not receive damage from having the diff locked on hard surfaces.

Pretty sure that should do it.

last edited by MudHappy
Community Moderator - Spintires

@mudhappy
However rest of your post makes sense, may I ask you what was the point of last two lines?

Sorry but locking my differentials on a hardsurface are bad for the axles, I run 46" of tires on unimog 404 axles with a standard 4 cylinder jeep engine and when I get on a hard surface it will give the diff and all the other components a lot off stress, thats not good. So in my opinion locking your diffs on a hard surface IS bad if you have a lot of traction (2 tons on 46" of tires).

And if there is a center diff in the game, it is always locked and not open. Because if you lock the diffs of the axles, the front and rear tires are turning both at the same speed, and not that the front axle is doing nothing and rear is spinning a lot (for example).
I'm not here to piss you off but just want to make clear that damage is a thing....

@MudHappy
I'm with @wrangmog on this one buddy. You even mention differential wind-up in your post, which is when the gears in your diff start to bind on each other from trying to force both wheels to spin and having a hard time doing so. Sometimes you can't even shift a rig OUT of 4WD/AWD if the diffs are wound up like that, until you can release that tension. Sounds to me like that can definitely damage the internals of your diffs along with other parts like CVs...

So I found a user manual for a big US army truck (10 ton 8x8 link below). It’s incredible what you can find on the internet…

On pages 2-138 and 2-139 of this manual (in the section IV : “Operating under unusual conditions”), it states : “Do not lock transfer or differential locks on hard surface. Damage to transfer or differential may result”

So for big trucks, we have our answer. 🙂

Regarding transfer lock, it also states : “Stop vehicule before engaging lock. Engaging transfer lock while vehicule is in motion can result in damage to transfer”

It does not say anything regarding dif lock damage if engaged in motion, but in the procedure, they state that you need to stop the vehicule first.

Anyway, it’s a user manual of one truck and the instructions may vary from one truck to another. Still, it’s a good insight, and I stand corrected. 🙂

Source:

https://books.google.fr/books?id=_VwYAAAAYAAJ&pg=SA2-PA139&lpg=SA2-PA139&dq=truck+diff+lock+damage+on+hard+surface&source=bl&ots=jHbfzZ5R_e&sig=670PMIGKlY2GkFuBziFuCupH6vM&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiNlYie-7bZAhVpoFkKHTTqDh0Q6AEIbTAL#v=onepage&q=truck diff lock damage on hard surface&f=false

@minikeum It also depends on the way you engage them, I know a lot of builds who can engage the difflocks at 50 km/h. But they DONT do that on a hard surface, because that will brake everything underneath your car.
Also, I'm not saying that they never brake something and never check and replace the parts....

last edited by wrangmog
Community Moderator - Spintires

@wrangmog
In THEORY, going stright with locked diff shouldn't cause any damage. When you turn steering wheel, think changes obviously.
Different radius for each wheel makes different angular speed for each wheel (this is what is diff made for) and when diff is locked, there is bigger and bigger tension with each meter traveled. And that tension needs to be released somewhere.
On a slipping surface, tyre slips and huzaa. On a surface with enought traction, probably something on a vehicle breakes.
And now I finally get myself to the point: with a bigger wheel (46" on a jeep?? 😂) you are getting longer lever, so even smaller force (from different ang. speed) will cause higher torque-tension for your shafts, diff-lock etc.

So locked diff may cause damage when there is force big enough to produce big ineough tension on (for example) axle. That MAY happen on hard surfaces...

Just personal opinion based on technical experiences, no actual offroad ones...

@Sodoma thats true
And this is the jeep
0_1519218594398_IMG-20171113-WA0010_01.jpg

XML's came of a unimog u1300, fits better on a 20" rim than a 40" tires does

last edited by wrangmog

@sodoma said in Mod to suppress lock dif damage in hardcore?:

@mudhappy
...may I ask you what was the point of last two lines?

You may. My answer would be out of utter frustration and anger. Due to the fact that my game has been off and on not working correctly for the past 7+ days. And that's very frustrating and angersome to deal with. Since it's totally out of my control and is not my fault. Thankfully I managed to fix it once again by verifying the integrity of the game files. So I edited it out of my post.

@mexican_420 said in Mod to suppress lock dif damage in hardcore?:

@MudHappy
I'm with @wrangmog on this one buddy. You even mention differential wind-up in your post, which is when the gears in your diff start to bind on each other from trying to force both wheels to spin and having a hard time doing so. Sometimes you can't even shift a rig OUT of 4WD/AWD if the diffs are wound up like that, until you can release that tension. Sounds to me like that can definitely damage the internals of your diffs along with other parts like CVs...

You're incorrect in assuming the wind up is in the axle diffs. That wind up is tension in the transfer case since there isn't a center differential in it(or it's locked). If there was a center diff(that was unlocked) that wouldn't happen. But you wouldn't be in 4WD either. You'd be in AWD. In AWD that never happens. It only happens in 4WD when there isn't enough slippage of the wheels, front to rear, to equalize the tension between the front and rear driveshafts. I shouldn't have even used the term "wind up" to describe what I was trying to say there. I had a feeling it would lead to someone responding as you did to it. Stopping there before I end up repeating myself over and over here.

I really don't want to argue this point anymore. But I have a few final things to say about it.

  1. In the game the locks only appear over the axles when you lock/unlock the diffs. And the damage from having them locked can occur with only the rear wheels engaged(not in AWD/ without the front wheels even being driven). So the damage could only be to the rear axle(s) diff(s) when that's the case.

  2. As such it also implies THERE IS NO CENTER DIFF. OR IF THERE IS ONE IT IS NOT UNLOCKABLE. SAME DIFF(ERENCE PARDON THE PUN). AS THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CENTER DIFF THAT IS ALWAYS LOCKED/NOT UNLOCKABLE. THAT WOULD BE A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME AND PARTS TO EVEN MAKE. I believe the game fails to accurately simulate there being no center diff, or one that is always locked/not unlockable. Because in AWD I can see that the front tires do not always spin at the same rate as the rear sometimes. Hinting at center differentiation at all times(never locked). For that matter the diff lock on the front axle doesn't appear to actually lock the front diff fully either. I can see a difference in speed at times between the wheel on the left and the wheel on the right. Not so with the rear for some reason.

  3. Having the differential locked in the axle is the same as having no differential(or running a spool). As such to say that it, the differential, will be damaged is slightly misleading. The differential gears, side gears, are not even really working. They're locked together as a single unit. That's not to say that they can't be damaged. HOWEVER...

  4. If you could damage the differential in your axle by running with it locked on hard surfaces...THEN ROCK CRAWLERS EVERYWHERE WOULD BE BLOWING THEIR LOCKED DIFFS LEFT AND RIGHT. IF IT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH SPEED THEN NASCAR DRIVERS WOULD BE BLOWING THEIR LOCKED DIFFS ALL THE TIME. WONDER WHY THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN IN EITHER CASE? I DON'T!!!

  5. This is a game. It doesn't 100% simulate reality. On this issue and many others. Who cares? It's still challenging and fun.

  6. That's it. I'm stepping out of the conversation now. Believe what you want to believe. I don't really care. I kind of regret saying anything. Because I've had the same argument too many times before. I should know better by now.

last edited by MudHappy

@mudhappy Just final things I have to say. I agree that the damage comes to quick, it should come after driving for a long period of time on a hard surface,
Rock crawlers are going slow on the rocks, thats why it is less of a problem.
And final, welded diffs could damage your vehicle as well because they are constantly on, and thats what gives damage, a long period of stress on the parts.

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