Assault (Boarding) Actions

How many SUCCESSFUL Boarding Actions do you guys think it should take to kill vital crew members. I'm not sure myself, but I'll take a generic stab at it. I would hate to see ONE lucky random roll trashing a undamaged Battleship. That's going to frustrate the hell out of people if it is possible.

Not Attempts, but Successful Actions.

Frigate: 1
Light Cruiser: 2
Cruiser: 3
Grand Cruiser: 4
Battle Cruiser: 5
Battleship: 6
Super Titan Ship Thing: 7

I don't know. Seems to me Crew would also die as the ship takes damage from ranged fire too, so that would lower the # of successful assaults needed to finish them off.

Its going to be a tricky thing. Here's hoping it's not something that can be exploited.

Hmm...We choose 2 skills and 2 Abilities...they didn't mention Crew allocations in PVP. Did they?

last edited by Bellumvinco

Well. They might get around the whole boarding thing by having different 'boarding damage' for different boarding actions.
Given the new boarding mechanic has been described as literally a second health bar, it stands to reason that they might make it so different factions and different ships having different boarding strength, and different amount of boarding 'health'.

So I think its too simplistic to really say for sure that a linear number of boarding actions will always take out ships of a certain size. I think its something that probably wont become clear until much closer to the time.
Although, as a minor prediction, I think that Chaos warships will have much better boarding strength than Imperial Warships. Chaos have better equipment, better soldiers, and better experience in performing boarding actions. But Imperial warships will take much longer to take down with boarding actions due to the large crew and troop compliment they always carry.

Also, minor nit-pick, a Grand Cruiser would be harder to board than a battle cruiser. Grand Cruisers are typically larger and have a larger crew than battle cruisers, while battle cruisers are generally better warships in traditional gun battles.

last edited by CALiGeR_Reborn

Yeah the way you described it would be very cheezy. I think the ships will have varied amounts of crew health but bigger ships are not gonna be takin out with 3 or 4 boarding actions. I hope they dont make it too complex or RNG based. And really hope they vastly improve ship health so the battles take a lil longer.

@bellumvinco said in Assault (Boarding) Actions:

How many SUCCESSFUL Boarding Actions do you guys think it should take to kill vital crew members. I'm not sure myself, but I'll take a generic stab at it. I would hate to see ONE lucky random roll trashing a undamaged Battleship. That's going to frustrate the hell out of people if it is possible.

Not Attempts, but Successful Actions.

Frigate: 1
Light Cruiser: 2
Cruiser: 3
Grand Cruiser: 4
Battle Cruiser: 5
Battleship: 6
Super Titan Ship Thing: 7

I don't know. Seems to me Crew would also die as the ship takes damage from ranged fire too, so that would lower the # of successful assaults needed to finish them off.

Its going to be a tricky thing. Here's hoping it's not something that can be exploited.

Hmm...We choose 2 skills and 2 Abilities...they didn't mention Crew allocations in PVP. Did they?

How many successful attempts. Assuming from a comparable sized ship.

Escorts: 100-200 attempts.
Light Cruisers: 200-300 Attempts
Cruisers: 500-800 Attempts
Anything Bigger: 1000 Attempts+

These are ships with TENS OF THOUSANDS of crew for the smallest vessels. Boarding actions in 40k are not about massive invasions into ships, they're about tactical strikes to key systems in order to render the ship more vulnerable and less effective.To be blunt, the crew mechanics we've heard of are a source of worry. Especially when you factor in that
A: Tyranids don't have crew at all. Their ships are alive.
B: Necrons don't have crew in the same sense as others.
C : Chaos frequently have as much daemonic control as crew.
D : Orks have vastly higher crew counts than Imperials
E: Conversely, Eldar ships are the reverse, sometimes having extremely tiny crews. (Path of the Outcast covers a ship that's crewed by a couple hundred Eldar at most, though it's class is never defined.)

last edited by Kadaeux

@kadaeux said in Assault (Boarding) Actions:

@bellumvinco said in Assault (Boarding) Actions:

How many SUCCESSFUL Boarding Actions do you guys think it should take to kill vital crew members. I'm not sure myself, but I'll take a generic stab at it. I would hate to see ONE lucky random roll trashing a undamaged Battleship. That's going to frustrate the hell out of people if it is possible.

Not Attempts, but Successful Actions.

Frigate: 1
Light Cruiser: 2
Cruiser: 3
Grand Cruiser: 4
Battle Cruiser: 5
Battleship: 6
Super Titan Ship Thing: 7

I don't know. Seems to me Crew would also die as the ship takes damage from ranged fire too, so that would lower the # of successful assaults needed to finish them off.

Its going to be a tricky thing. Here's hoping it's not something that can be exploited.

Hmm...We choose 2 skills and 2 Abilities...they didn't mention Crew allocations in PVP. Did they?

How many successful attempts. Assuming from a comparable sized ship.

Escorts: 100-200 attempts.
Light Cruisers: 200-300 Attempts
Cruisers: 500-800 Attempts
Anything Bigger: 1000 Attempts+

These are ships with TENS OF THOUSANDS of crew for the smallest vessels. Boarding actions in 40k are not about massive invasions into ships, they're about tactical strikes to key systems in order to render the ship more vulnerable and less effective.To be blunt, the crew mechanics we've heard of are a source of worry. Especially when you factor in that
A: Tyranids don't have crew at all. Their ships are alive.
B: Necrons don't have crew in the same sense as others.
C : Chaos frequently have as much daemonic control as crew.
D : Orks have vastly higher crew counts than Imperials
E: Conversely, Eldar ships are the reverse, sometimes having extremely tiny crews. (Path of the Outcast covers a ship that's crewed by a couple hundred Eldar at most, though it's class is never defined.)

Well while i agree on some of your points. (Nobody is going to want to be in boarding range from nids anyway)I think the best thing to do is to not over interpret things. Yes boarding is not about invasions but often when you do tactical strikes on important locations crews in charge of these important systems will often get killed. So overall it does make some sense.
Cause killing crew is a piece of cake until ratings can break the attack.

Just view this as an attempt to reduce game ending situations cause i remember some crit builds like MoK spam being hideously OP before they patched it. Because being LS'd from 5 MoK ships often turned your ship into a floating husk. Now its crew based and i think this is a welcome change.

last edited by CANNED_F3TUS

@canned_f3tus said in Assault (Boarding) Actions:

Well while i agree on some of your points. (Nobody is going to want to be in boarding range from nids anyway)I think the best thing to do is to not over interpret things. Yes boarding is not about invasions but often when you do tactical strikes on important locations crews in charge of these important systems will often get killed. So overall it does make some sense.

Just view this as an attempt to reduce game ending situations cause i remember some crit builds like MoK spam being hideously OP before they patched it. Because being LS from 5 MoK ships often turned your ship into a floating husk. Now its crew based and i think this is a welcome change.

I don't over-interpret it at all. I'm concerned about the potential, especially worst-case scenarios.

Implemented well, I think we'll all be happy. But until then, said concerns remain concerns.

few factions are going to actually use it
i assume lowering crew will increase cooldown time, like a minor version of the insubordination debuff in bfg1
having khorne maniacs running trough your gun decks is going to make people reload slower
but nids... nids do sends millions into a ship to eat it empty and it isnt uncommon for them to leave empty hulks behind
im still hoping for a combination of features, for example send in boardings and assault boats to lower troop value then once weakened do lightning strikes with a higher chance to succeed
imps chaos and eldar are never going to actually empty the enemy ships and i think necrons arnt even going to have boarding, just lots of teleports, fearing for imperials to leave empty hulks behind to be a thing seems a bit silly
but paranoia is a healthy state of mind so well see when we actually see anything
currently the only thing we have is vague descriptions

but the idea of needing 100s of boardings is stupid, most of the population in ships is civvies and a chaos cultist is going to kill 100s of those before defensive crew can find them so if you send in a few thousand per boarding it wouldnt need 100's of boardings

@ashardalon said in Assault (Boarding) Actions:

few factions are going to actually use it
i assume lowering crew will increase cooldown time, like a minor version of the insubordination debuff in bfg1
having khorne maniacs running trough your gun decks is going to make people reload slower
but nids... nids do sends millions into a ship to eat it empty and it isnt uncommon for them to leave empty hulks behind
im still hoping for a combination of features, for example send in boardings and assault boats to lower troop value then once weakened do lightning strikes with a higher chance to succeed
imps chaos and eldar are never going to actually empty the enemy ships and i think necrons arnt even going to have boarding, just lots of teleports, fearing for imperials to leave empty hulks behind to be a thing seems a bit silly
but paranoia is a healthy state of mind so well see when we actually see anything
currently the only thing we have is vague descriptions

but the idea of needing 100s of boardings is stupid, most of the population in ships is civvies and a chaos cultist is going to kill 100s of those before defensive crew can find them so if you send in a few thousand per boarding it wouldnt need 100's of boardings

Except they don't send thousands in boardings. They send hundreds at most not counting Tyranids. Moreover, there is no 'find them' they know where they're being boarded. Lightning Strikes not included.

You bring up a separate but interesting point with Tyranids. On TT you could choose to self-destruct if boarded because of it.

@kadaeux said in Assault (Boarding) Actions:

@canned_f3tus said in Assault (Boarding) Actions:

Well while i agree on some of your points. (Nobody is going to want to be in boarding range from nids anyway)I think the best thing to do is to not over interpret things. Yes boarding is not about invasions but often when you do tactical strikes on important locations crews in charge of these important systems will often get killed. So overall it does make some sense.

Just view this as an attempt to reduce game ending situations cause i remember some crit builds like MoK spam being hideously OP before they patched it. Because being LS from 5 MoK ships often turned your ship into a floating husk. Now its crew based and i think this is a welcome change.

I don't over-interpret it at all. I'm concerned about the potential, especially worst-case scenarios.

Implemented well, I think we'll all be happy. But until then, said concerns remain concerns.

I think this is more of a lore concern of yours. If done right it will make sense and not be to broken. Hell some races like tyranids could be immune to boarding but they werent immune to it on table Top just difficult

Tyranids bioships are swarming with Tyranids for offensive and defensive purposes

Deathwatch: Kryptman's War book has tyranid boarding action

last edited by shadowsfm

@caliger_reborn Good catch. I did mess that up.

@bellumvinco

Not Attempts, but Successful Actions.

Frigate: 1
Light Cruiser: 1
Cruiser: 1
Grand Cruiser: 1
Battle Cruiser: 1
Battleship: 1
Super Titan Ship Thing: 1

Elite Spacemarine Terminators take the bridge and kill all vital systems. Gravity turned off. Oxygen turned off. Power Turned off. Overload the core. Lets get the hell off this drifting graveyard.

The 1 guy with his 1000+ estimates...You fellas are thinking about actively butchering each individual. Have some imagination.

last edited by Bellumvinco

@bellumvinco
probably still needs a boarding or two first
as distraction
then send the guy in with lightning strike

I think tindalos will change quite a few things with how the crew health bar effects the ship.

Atm i just dont think that ships being absolutly empty and disabled after so many boarding actions is a good idea. Even the option to reboard empty ships seems like a pain in the ass and by my experiences with BFGA it will be almost impossible even suicidal.i do get when people say it probably will be broken as hell. (SM, nids and orks will benifit the most from this mechanic lets be real here) So i think a better idea would be for low crew health vessels to receive debuffs to some stats rather than absolutly losing the ship.

@bellumvinco said in Assault (Boarding) Actions:

@bellumvinco

Not Attempts, but Successful Actions.

Frigate: 1
Light Cruiser: 1
Cruiser: 1
Grand Cruiser: 1
Battle Cruiser: 1
Battleship: 1
Super Titan Ship Thing: 1

Elite Spacemarine Terminators take the bridge and kill all vital systems. Gravity turned off. Oxygen turned off. Power Turned off. Overload the core. Lets get the hell off this drifting graveyard.

The 1 guy with his 1000+ estimates...You fellas are thinking about actively butchering each individual. Have some imagination.

So, take bridge and kill all vital systems =/= Crew Health.

Gravity Turned Off. So now you want them to traipse a kilometre+ down to engineering. Oxygen turned off. Now you're talking about trips all over the ship to individual systems. Power turned off. Plasma reactors are not light switches, they don't turn off. Overload the Core. Again, not crew health, moreover that would actively destroy the ship entirely AND require that the Terminators get down to Engineering.

Moreover, it would require a Terminator Squad to possess skills that they in fact don't possess. What you're talking about is critical hits, the old mechanics, which is strike teams going to critical systems and destroying them from within. What we're talking about is crew health, where we're expected to believe a boarding party in the tens to hundreds manage to somehow slaughter crews in the tens of thousands.

I wonder if the Tyranids will have the ability to "regrow" Troop Health over time. Could turn them from "difficult to board" to "suicidal to board".

@romeo It wouldn't surprise me.

@kadaeux Thats not even considering all the unique aspects of each ship, like for nids what bridge, or for necrons what oxygen? There is also each ships unique resistance to boarding, like Necrons respawning on the ship as you fight it, or the necrodermis walls just eating the boarders (yes that has happened before).

@nemesor-xanxas said in Assault (Boarding) Actions:

@kadaeux Thats not even considering all the unique aspects of each ship, like for nids what bridge, or for necrons what oxygen? There is also each ships unique resistance to boarding, like Necrons respawning on the ship as you fight it, or the necrodermis walls just eating the boarders (yes that has happened before).

Also the hordes of scarabs that tend to deal with boarders and then repair damage done (faster than just passive regen)

But also on the flipside. I felt that in BFG:A boarding was too frequent. On TT it was an opportunistic thing you did if you just happened to be in the right place and the right time, Boarding Assaults required base to base contact, and teleport assaults were much shorter ranged (what the boarding attacks range is in BFG:A pretty much.)

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