@semprenissart said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

@secelit3 said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

Use your head and make it work.

I wonder how asking your boss for a 20% raise to “offset costs” after making poor financial decisions would end.

20% increase to offset the cost.... geez

1. not sure why you're so aggressive with someone who just gives feedback
2. your reasoning makes no sense because cost and money spent/earned in the game is nowhere near real life prices. If your boss pays you $100/day but you have to spend $120/day to complete a task, would you do it?

Okay, hardcore mode is a completely optional experience, and at a glance, it appeared he was requesting a nerf. Now, with the fuel trailers empty, I’m not so sure, as I have to restart to see how it plays out.

Because the mode is completely optional, it is upsetting and extremely concerning to see requests to make the mode less difficult.

Again, I don’t want to see the “it’s hard, so change it” mentality referencing an optional mode. It’s so common these days.

@secelit3 said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

Okay, hardcore mode is a completely optional experience, and at a glance, it appeared he was requesting a nerf. Now, with the fuel trailers empty, I’m not so sure, as I have to restart to see how it plays out.

Because the mode is completely optional, it is upsetting and extremely concerning to see requests to make the mode less difficult.

Again, I don’t want to see the “it’s hard, so change it” mentality referencing an optional mode. It’s so common these days.

I'm inclined to agree, it seems somewhat daft to want to reduce the difficulty of an optional mode that literally has the title "Hard Mode".

Obviously, a well-thought-through balance needs to be struck, and that's somewhat the point of testing it before live rollout.
...but to my mind, I'd say the ideal balance to be struck should be aiming for a hypothetical case where if a player does things with, say, around 75% efficiency, they'll just about squeak through all tasks in a region without running out of money, accounting for the need to buy a handful of upgrades and perhaps a couple of trucks, taking into account all the money that can be gained from selling off unwanted equipment gained for free from exploration.

Clearly, that leaves a very wide scope of possibilities... but the point of a Hard Mode shouldn't be that literally all playstyles remain viable, and costs adjusted to allow that. Hard Mode should require significant care, planning and compromise, otherwise what's the point?

The rewards already available in the game are plentiful on a regular playthrough - and the proposed costs of fuel and repairs I think would solidly absorb a bunch of that excess without rendering a playthrough anywhere close to impossible, provided you play with care - a challenge! Exactly what we want from a Hard Mode.
 
 
Given that it's inevitable that people will want different things from Hard Mode, and have a different idea of what is "challenging but fair", this only lends weight to my feeling that it should present itself as a bunch of sliders when you start a new Hard Mode save - have reasonable defaults as the minimum values (so that beating Hard Mode is still a valid baseline achievement), but allow people to increase multipliers for each, so if we want to try and beat the game with 10x higher repair costs and 1.5x higher fuel costs, we can.

@fbevil said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

@secelit3 said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

Dang, so sorry! I missed the fuel trailers empty part! I’m an idiot! As a

Thx you realize my point of view. It is a great idea to deliver trailer empty but .... do you remember the beginning of the game with the rewards between 300-1000$.

So I really think the Dev should think about the general balance and 20-25% will not make the game easy.

Starting out in Michigan, there's a fully-stocked 2000-unit fuel trailer parked up a minute's drive away from the garage you start at, so there's a $4000 free bonus to get everyone started. I recall there's also a fuel-semi at both Drummond Island and Island Lake, so there's another free $14800's worth... plus there's like 3 more 2000-unit trailers and 3 more scout-trailers around Island Lake too... the place is absolutely flooded with free fuel.
(Edit: did a quick count-up, looks like there's a total of 18100L of free fuel around the whole Michigan region - if you roughly estimated a typical average fuel consumption of 10L/m, that's 30 hours of free truckin' before you ever even need to pay for fuel. Guessing you can save up a decent chunk of change in the first 30 hours...)

I think there's plenty to get by without needing to crank rewards by 20-25% (which would account for another ~$50000 per region)

Still can not hide the crane instructions. Does anyone play here with the G29? The unhide button in the driving wheel is one of the button what controls the crane arrow up and the full screen instrustions pop up al the time. Add in the menu to force hide it or something. Thank you

why i can not respawn to any garrage?

At this point, since hard mode comes with a "constant" cost variable which is the refueling, I would make some of the tasks repeatable.

Juste take some of the simple deliveries of something like consumables, repair parts, etc. just for the sake of realism as these cargos would need to be delivered at a constant feed in real life.

And no, I'm not talking about the challenges that comes with restrictions like maximum damage and time limit.

It would make more sense that there would be a way to complete the game at 100% in HM without having the risk spending your savings. By making some tasks repeatable you would actually have to spend some time and work to get the money, instead of increasing the reward of those tasks. I consider this much more realistic.

This is the only thing preventing me from enjoying the HM: risking having not enough money and need to restart a save. I'd rather give more game hour than restart everything.

Also, please add the repair parts refilling points to the normal game mode, it would just makes sense as it is unrealistic to sell/buy back a repair trailer to replenish it.

The less sell/buy back we could do, the better for a gaming experience it would be.

Saber Can you add price of fuel tag when looking on the map it would be nice to see where is cheaper and is it worth to drag a fuel trailer

Another thing is could you add an option to buy a canister (20L-30L) of fuel at the garege at elevated price let's say about once per in ge day as Fail-Safe mechanic I mean enough fuel to get to next gas station

Cheers
Keep up great work

PS. When you will fix that crane on military Azov that thing is driving me crazy!?

I completed the "Tree Blockade" task on map Amur, Cosmodrome, but the blockade was not removed

@grimdanfango said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

there's a total of 18100L of free fuel around the whole Michigan region

its impossible to imagine that hardcore players will steal the fuel from someones trailers!

@Stazco said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

@grimdanfango said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

there's a total of 18100L of free fuel around the whole Michigan region

its impossible to imagine that hardcore players will steal the fuel from someones trailers!

Speak for yourself

I hope to take on as difficult a challenge as possible, and then exploit every means at my disposal to beat it

@grimdanfango

fortunately they removed free dlc vehicles from garage

next they should remove all free trailers, incl fuel ones. after that they should let us sell our owned trailers, for 50%.

next there should be an option to remove all free vehicles from maps (800, ank, p16)
even vehicles we get after absurdly easy tasks should be removed, only $ reward:
“i lost in the woods my baby, i cant live without it, PLEASE bring it back TO ME! ok, you brought it back, thank you, here is your $ reward! oh, and ive changed my mind, i hate this baby, you can take it! that????!!!!! you give me the $ reward AND the vehicle itself!!!??? you should visit a psychiatrist!”

@Stazco said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

@grimdanfango

fortunately they removed free dlc vehicles from garage

next they should remove all free trailers, incl fuel ones. after that they should let us sell our owned trailers, for 50%.

next there should be an option to remove all free vehicles from maps (800, ank, p16)
even vehicles we get after absurdly easy tasks should be removed, only $ reward:
“i lost in the woods my baby, i cant live without it, PLEASE bring it back TO ME! ok, you brought it back, thank you, here is your $ reward! oh, and ive changed my mind, i hate this baby, you can take it! that????!!!!! you give me the $ reward AND the vehicle itself!!!??? you should visit a psychiatrist!”

I suspect you may be the only person on this forum more die-hard about hard-mode than I am
...and I think if they did implement those suggestions, then they definately would need to increase mission payouts by a significant amount.

I actually think Hard Mode gives new meaning to all those fuel trailers dotted around the maps - before, they just seemed like pointless spam cluttering up regions that already had too many fuel stations with a bunch of bonus, mini-fuel-stations, and making refueling even more irrelevant a mechanic.
Now, they're an essential resource you need to make a point of going out to scavenge and stockpile. Marvelous!

Hi guys... I'm loving snowrunner so far.. im really excited for phase 4
but i want to make a suggestion here, as there will be a short logs addon available for trucks, could this addon also carry medium logs?? it would be way more inviting to do all the medium logs contracts i still havent done yet (cuz having to haul all the medium logs contracts with trailers... its kinda frustrating :P)
So, will we be able to carry MEDIUM LOGS with this frame ADDON??

Hello,

I’m not sure if this is the right place for my suggestion, but it’s my feedback to the new hardmode.

Since this game is more about driving through rough terrain and the logistics behind it than about economics and money, I’m no friend to the approach that “everything” has to cost something and to limit your “freedom” with that.

Why not make the driving experience harder?
My suggestions would be:

• only cockpit view (except crane and winch point selection)
• increased fuel consumption
• increased damage
• deactivated quick-load function
• maximum number of trailers per map or region (if there are more trailers on the map or region, you just can’t buy more and have to use or find the existing trailers). maybe also trailer groups (cargo, fuel, replair including sout and truck trailers)
• empty trailers and addons to buy
• repair but only refuel to a specific percentage at the garage like in mudrunner
• maybe decreased engine power
• your cost for rescue is okay, but is it game over, if you have no money for it?
• truck deployment can cost money, but only if the truck was not stored in the same garage and region change to the first map should be free
• maybe an option for “no mud and chain tires”
• maybe only stock winch
• removing all trailers and vehicles from the maps like @Stazco suggested can also be an option

For the increased damage, fuel consumption and maybe costs would be a settings slider good (e.g.: 125%-500%) or that every option is choosable.

In my opinion we could have a more challenging experience while driving/playing with these options and still have the freedom to try stuff and experiment and it also fits the game better.
With these options it is also less likely that you get permanently punished if you buy a “bad” truck or encounter bugs/glitches especially in multiplayer e.g.: when you can’t refuel at trailers while the fuel disappears.

Don’t forget these are suggestions and this is just my opinion.

@Commerzpunk said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

• only cockpit view (except crane and winch point selection)

I kinda wish we could put this one to bed. I understand that to some people this would genuinely constitute a challenge, but the game is built from the ground-up around 3rd person view, and using in-cockpit view also sacrifices a lot of the visual appeal, not to mention hiding almost all of the physics.

Forcing that in Hard Mode would completely ruin the game for me.

The only way I can see it being viable is if it's a strictly-optional tickbox when starting Hard Mode.

@Commerzpunk said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

With these options it is also less likely that you get permanently punished if you buy a “bad” truck ...

I've been thinking about this, as it seems like it could be a genuine, recurring issue with Hard Mode - being restricted from "trying out" new equipment without massive financial penalties.

The best solution I can think of is to have some kind of "depreciation" on trucks, so that if you try them out and decide to sell within the first 15-20 minutes, you get a full refund, but after that, the value drops off sharply. The found-vehicles around the map could simply already have 20 hours on the clock, so they're already at their minimum resale value.
Something like this graph: https://bit.ly/3sbgVAW (y-axis percentage, x-axis hours since purchase)

@grimdanfango said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

@Commerzpunk said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

With these options it is also less likely that you get permanently punished if you buy a “bad” truck ...

I've been thinking about this, as it seems like it could be a genuine, recurring issue with Hard Mode - being restricted from "trying out" new equipment without massive financial penalties.

The best solution I can think of is to have some kind of "depreciation" on trucks, so that if you try them out and decide to sell within the first 15-20 minutes, you get a full refund, but after that, the value drops off sharply. The found-vehicles around the map could simply already have 20 hours on the clock, so they're already at their minimum resale value.
Something like this graph: https://bit.ly/3sbgVAW (y-axis percentage, x-axis hours since purchase)

I haven't thought about something like that until now, but it sounds like a good compromise.
Since the game already tracks the driven distance, this could also be an option.

@grimdanfango said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

The only way I can see it being viable is if it's a strictly-optional tickbox when starting Hard Mode.

That would be the best way for a lot of options.

@grimdanfango said in PTS Update 08/04/2021 (13.12):

decide to sell within the first 15-20 minutes

maybe SOMEONE ON EARTH will propose to return individual vehicles milage, we had in mudrunner, or im the only freak, asking for it from day1?
mudrunner, separate undepended maps - we had vehicles mileage
snowrunner, career rpg - no mileage...
such a bs!!((

And with individual mileage, you could make the "sell penalty" at least work a bit. If you do a "mistake" and you have not driven a truck, you lose way less than fixed 50%. So it could be a few percent (e.g. 5%) for a short test drive to 50% for long term use. Imagine, you would not know which trucks are implemented as "BS".

The question about trucks and sale is a valid point.

Whilst I don't think of it myself enough, Sandbox Mode does provide that actual facility to test trucks.