Ai...

ok love Blood Bowl , played the board game a ton in the early 2000,s , the digital version has allowed quite a few us old timers to get back together again , but we all agree the ai is rubbish, and some of us would like to play the ai somtimes to get experiance with teams we perhaps have never played

The ai is all the same , create a cage, thats it, the teams dont play like they should they quite often dont protect the ball carrier and make stupid plays.

So is it going to stay like that or are the devs going to even consider making the teams play to their strengths?

It has been crap since 2009. The chances of it improving now look slim.

We were asking for the AI to be improved before BB1 was even released, so that should give you an indication how likely it is. 😞

@madmaz116 said in Ai...:

The ai is all the same , create a cage, thats it, the teams dont play like they should they quite often dont protect the ball carrier and make stupid plays.

Have you played against Wood Elves or Skaven?

When I did that, they did a lot of passing plays, Wardancers leaping over your line to sack the ball-carrier and suchlike, basically what you would expect from Wood Elves. High Elves employed the 'rush lots of catchers forward and then pass to one of them' approach a lot. Have not seen the AI do that with Dwarfs.

Also, have you played against human players? What you're describing is the same there (create cage, create cage, make mistakes) in a lot of cases. In that regard, I wouldn't fault the AI to behave like a human.

Yes, there are the legitimate concerns that it's not turn-aware, doesn't foul, doesn't move in quick-snap, doesn't use a wizard etc. but it behaving the same for all races is simply false in my experience.

Then you must have a different game to me coz i have never seen the Ai pass the ball, not once, and yes ive played against wood elves and Skaven, sorry the Ai is rubbish , pure and simple. There has been times when ive left my ball carrier open and the Ai has moved 3 or 4 players next to a downed player and not even attempted to blitz or block my ball carrier . thats sloppy coding.

You can beat them almost everytime even on the hardest setting. The Ai creates a cage , never looks to break out , yeh a wardancer might leap here and there , but predominatly its the cage tactic. Complete rubbish.

There are some who might argue that the cage is the only tactic and passing should only be done if really necessary. Maybe you're playing in a way that doesn't allow the AI to pass, i.e. makes it unlikely that a pass play would succeed?

The problem with the cage-play is that they programmed it to cage, but I think they didn't program it so that it can move the cage very well against normal anti-cage tactics.

But yeah, I seem to have a very different AI. Mine also does chain-pushes and stuff, though before that happens, all turn-time is used up for computation, it seems.

@ugh Really?, what coach who plays an agile team predominatly plays the cage tactic? , id like to see elves play a cage tactic against orcs, it wont last long.

you play the team to its strengths and the Ai doesnt do that .

Would be cool if there was an API so the community could try and create a better AI.

The AI is crap, but that is kind of expected in a niche game like this.

You can gauge the capability of the AI by looking at the different difficulty settings. In BB1 the ONLY difference between the difficulties have been the dice rolls by the AI. Yeah, I'm not kidding you, there was absolutely NO difference in playstyle or anything else. In BB2 it just seems that the ratio of secure vs. risky plays change. Also no improvement of playstyles.
I have not lost a single darned game vs. the AI. Not once. It's good for learning the game, but nothing for half a decent human coach to worry about.
I love that my favorite boardgame got a digital representation, but don't hold your horses for any improvement at all. I do honestly believe that it would be a tall order for Cyanide to improve on the AI. You'd have to not only analyze really good players thought processes, but implement some sort of machine learning. That would probably be prohibitively expensive. Think AlphaGo with a lot more random parameters. Like coaches throwing secure plays out the window and doing stuff you'd NEVER do, if you'd followed any sane advice.

BB wasn't designed as a one player game. And if you don't have the time to play vs. a human Coach and like to be able to pause on really short notice to tend to your family for example, you're out of luck with this game.

@coachwolfskin said in Ai...:

In BB1 the ONLY difference between the difficulties have been the dice rolls by the AI.

That's not true, there was no difference in the dice rolls (despite what the foil-hat brigade think). It just took more risks on the easier setting, which some people were unprepared for.

@darkson I'd like to disagree. Not part of the foil-hat brigade, seeing as I don't lose games to the AI. But I experienced a lot more armour breaks and high-rolls on high-risk maneuvers when switching to hardest difficulty. Mind you, I'm absolutely not complaining about AI difficulty at all, if you ask me the AI is negligible in strength, even when (or if) it was cheating.

BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

@coachwolfskin said in Ai...:

I experienced a lot more armour breaks and high-rolls on high-risk maneuvers when switching to hardest difficulty.

Presumably you have some data to back that up?

@dode74 Nope. This was BB1. I know of confirmation bias and of the trap to think the game is out to get you. Been playing BB for 25 years and also know of statistics. All you and I have is my personal opinion. But I have played a lot against the AI to see if it was really as bad as I thought. In BB2 the AI is still awful, but at least my impression of cheating on higher difficulty settings is gone.
Take it for what it is - my opinion. Back then I couldn't have cared less about it, still don't really care about it. AI never beats me, so I never had the urge to collect data.

Did you check millions/billions+ of dice rolls? Because Mike did, and found nothing dodge with the AI rolls. In fact, with that 'tool' that allowed you to see the upcoming dice rolls let anyone see the AI wasn't cheating with its rolls.

You can only do so much with AI unless you pay through the nose, I dont expect to see any improvments.

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