How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?

I made a short breakdown of some of the most glaring issues with BFGA 1's multiplayer and propose some changes for the sequel. What do you guys think? https://youtu.be/k7lvVlM0eNk

I respect the Dev's right to forge the game after their own vision, but it might be useful if we can start a dialogue here to weigh in and give them a view into what the community thinks.

I know some of this has been discussed elsewhere on the forum, however I couldn't find a comprehensive thread covering everything from the meta game around multiplayer to the core mechanics of moment to moment gameplay.

In my opinion: Another hidden issue with the multiplayer was the ability to use Renown to Instantly Rebuild/Repair ships. If a player has a lot of renown, they can play in a different, more carefree way, knowing they can just Instantly repair their ships. Players without banked renown need to play more tactically and are stuck using frigates until their ships are rebuilt or repaired naturally. We accepted our ship being Lost in the Warp. I'm fine using renown to put out fires, but we should have to wait for each ship to be repaired. This would add a different feel/element.

I believe folks would be a lot more tactical with their ships without Instant Repairs. I believe folks would be less likely to Execute their ship's nobody Captains and more likely to allow the Warp out. Or try to Warp out themselves.

Another fix would of coarse be to instantly fix all ships as soon as the battle is over. I'd be fine with that in multiplayer. Let renown be used for color schemes and other pretty nothings.

last edited by Bellumvinco

With 12 playable factions balance is a pipe dream.... the only way to counter that would be to homogenize the factions to the point they were the same units with different skins. That being said you may be able to mitigate the disparity by increasing the amount of spare ships you can have so you can afford to have the obscure classes of vessels that are really only good against 1 or 2 factions.

@imptastic said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

With 12 playable factions balance is a pipe dream.... the only way to counter that would be to homogenize the factions to the point they were the same units with different skins. That being said you may be able to mitigate the disparity by increasing the amount of spare ships you can have so you can afford to have the obscure classes of vessels that are really only good against 1 or 2 factions.

Just my 1/2 cent: If...If they are able to realize a balanced points system (ramming, weapons, speed, armor, and such, then use that system to individually balance each ship using that system, in theory, they can get very close. Ship wise. If they try to balance each race against one another they'll for ever go around that merry go round.

I have faith that they'll do the best they can and have daily discussions about this very topic.

I've never seen a perfectly balanced...anything. Is it possible for imperfect beings to create perfection? It's a noble pursuit, but naive to expect it.

the problem with that method is there are just to many variables to calculate then form a balanced team around and still adhere to the lore of the 40k universe... 12 factions will make for a great single player game but i just dont see it working out for "serious" multiplayer.

@imptastic said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

the problem with that method is there are just to many variables to calculate then form a balanced team around and still adhere to the lore of the 40k universe... 12 factions will make for a great single player game but i just dont see it working out for "serious" multiplayer.

So it'll be exactly like the source material, then?

@romeo Lets pray its a bit better than that, we don't need fish of fury in spess

@nemesor-xanxas said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

@romeo Lets pray its a bit better than that, we don't need fish of fury in spess

As a Tau fan, I find your statement offensive and morally depraved. 😛

Yeah 12 factions will make balance tough. It wont be perfect. But we can atleast try to help tindalos not impliment cancer but make better design choices.

@bellumvinco I think the best course of action with regards to this is removing the whole idea of fleet repairs and the upgrade meta-game. I do like the idea of a progression system attached to multiplayer, but I think it should be cosmetic or tiny upgrades like Company of Heroes 2's bulletins.

With 12 factions balance will be tough for sure, however making non admiral ships function more like regular RTS units with less variables in terms of different upgrades, abilities, crew score etc should make it achievable. Balance doesn't have to be absolutely perfect for a fun competitive scene, just near enough. I think leveraging different points costs for ships as well as having their base stats to tweak will mean that they can hopefully finesse it into a good state.

What do you guys think about having a pool of actually designed and static maps?

@botbot I think you should make your question a Thread.

@botbot said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

@bellumvinco I think the best course of action with regards to this is removing the whole idea of fleet repairs and the upgrade meta-game. I do like the idea of a progression system attached to multiplayer, but I think it should be cosmetic or tiny upgrades like Company of Heroes 2's bulletins.

With 12 factions balance will be tough for sure, however making non admiral ships function more like regular RTS units with less variables in terms of different upgrades, abilities, crew score etc should make it achievable. Balance doesn't have to be absolutely perfect for a fun competitive scene, just near enough. I think leveraging different points costs for ships as well as having their base stats to tweak will mean that they can hopefully finesse it into a good state.

What do you guys think about having a pool of actually designed and static maps?

I don't think I could disagree with this any harder if I tried. The upgrades are great fun, and frankly I'd like to see repairs play an even greater part in singleplayer - it would help force fleet diversity. For multiplayer-only, sure, strip the game to the bone in the name of balance. But that shouldn't be a game-wide implementation.

@romeo hmm yeah it would be cool if they can kind of make 2 seperate versions. But i have no clue how they are gonna wing that. SC 2s coop feature is pretty neat with leveling up your army and all the unique upgrades you can unlock while the base pvp is unnaffected.

@romeo i think your starting to touch the subject i am most afraid of.... this crusade to balance multiplayer making single player not fun. 12 factions is in my opinion to many for multiplayer period! some of these factions should be made npc only, single player only, or excluded from "ranked" play. As it stands if necrons cant sit there and laugh at eldar the game is broken according to the table top.

pre made maps sound bad
would like some map types
for example an asteroid belt map dividing the map in the middle by large asteroid fields would be cool
but pre made maps would make it too repetitive
things like a guarantee for there to be a gas cloud would remove the risk from some builds

would love to have some campaign pre made maps for custom battles tho
the map where you escort the inquisitor ship for example is a lot of fun
for a few times atleast
not if its 1 out of 24 tho

@canned_f3tus said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

@romeo hmm yeah it would be cool if they can kind of make 2 seperate versions. But i have no clue how they are gonna wing that. SC 2s coop feature is pretty neat with leveling up your army and all the unique upgrades you can unlock while the base pvp is unnaffected.

Well, we do know some things are being split for multiplayer (No modifications on ships, Cruiser Clash exclusive game mode and no progression system). I hope that multiplayer is kept really, really separate from singleplayer, because their objectives are very different from one another.

@imptastic said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

@romeo i think your starting to touch the subject i am most afraid of.... this crusade to balance multiplayer making single player not fun. 12 factions is in my opinion to many for multiplayer period! some of these factions should be made npc only, single player only, or excluded from "ranked" play. As it stands if necrons cant sit there and laugh at eldar the game is broken according to the table top.

Yeah, the tabletop has literally never been fully balanced, nor has Starcraft I or II, nor Supreme Commander, Command and Conquer or literally any asymmetric game. I think chasing that ideal is, to be blunt, pointless: Blizzard has an eight year head start, and only three factions, and people still call that imbalanced. But if they have to still try to appease the multiplayer crowd, my sincerest hope is that they rope off that half of the game completely, and don't let it ruin singleplayer.

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