How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?

Yes I get that single player may well be the most popular game mode and whilst for me the game is about multiplayer I understand that a lot of people don't feel that way. I wanted to add that In order to fit more players into a match I would also be quite happy with less points per player so that the teams don't get too big as a happy compromise for performance. Total War Arena limits each player to just 3 units and the idea is great and very popular so even if each player on a 4v4 player team in BFGA 2 was limited to 3 ships such a game mode would no doubt be very popular. I say this that overbloated teams and poor performance should not be a reason to exclude 4v4 as even less ships per player would work and maintain performance. The point is that a game mode with more players enriches the battles and make the game much more social and enjoyable. I had many friends who played BFGA 1 and was often running into the situation where I was playing with a friend and then another one or even two hopped on and had to sit out. That really is anti-social and divides friends where so many people play online in groups on teamspeak or discord these days. Catering to those more sociable gamers who enjoy playing most games together in groups of 4 I think would really build a great following for the game.

last edited by Orkan

4v4 would make for some interesting battles i agree with you there the fleet comps and dynamics whould be fun as hell but i just dont see tindelos having the time or manpower to set all that up, they are quite a small crew when compared to the makers of total war.

It is just a matter of increasing the player count in a match, I think network issues is the biggest problem here, they need to be able to double the amount of players on a map and perhaps increase the map size. They could keep it as two teams only and that simplifies things a lot.

Really it depends on if their engine can handle it. If they are using the same engine as in BFG 1 ( and that would not surprise me at all) then that could be their limitation, as I have heard nothing about increased player numbers I feel that its going to be the same old 2v2 on the same game engine with just extra factions and story stuff built on. That would be a great shame as 2v2 multiplayer is very limited. Name me all the epic 2v2 multiplayer RTS games and then name all the epic 4v4 multiplayer games. Exactly.

@orkan they did say they were using a new engine. The details i dont have but someone else here might.

last edited by imptastic

@imptastic said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

@orkan they did say they were using a new engine. The details i dont have but someone else here might.

I don't think anyone with the details is allowed to talk about them at the moment. I've followed all the announcements I know of and they haven't specified what engine they're using that I can remember, so anyone who does know is probably under NDA in the Alpha.

Personally think the multiplayer experience could be easily fixed in the 1st game. Raise prices on ships with upgrades (maybe even balance abilities with points individually?) and the progression system works just fine. The new player experience was so bad because a lvl 10 ship was the same price as a lvl 1 ship. And even the extra points that you got from the level difference wasent enough to give the low lvl character a fighting chance. Fix that, and imho the biggest issue with BFGA multiplayer is fixed.

@demoulius said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

Personally think the multiplayer experience could be easily fixed in the 1st game. Raise prices on ships with upgrades (maybe even balance abilities with points individually?) and the progression system works just fine. The new player experience was so bad because a lvl 10 ship was the same price as a lvl 1 ship. And even the extra points that you got from the level difference wasent enough to give the low lvl character a fighting chance. Fix that, and imho the biggest issue with BFGA multiplayer is fixed.

Problem with that, is that it punishes advancement. If an unupgraded ship is cheaper than my veteran ship, and can still do 90% of the same things, why would I want to level it up? It's like in Oblivion where you level up, and then everything levels up more than you - it makes you not want to advance.

@romeo said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

@demoulius said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

Personally think the multiplayer experience could be easily fixed in the 1st game. Raise prices on ships with upgrades (maybe even balance abilities with points individually?) and the progression system works just fine. The new player experience was so bad because a lvl 10 ship was the same price as a lvl 1 ship. And even the extra points that you got from the level difference wasent enough to give the low lvl character a fighting chance. Fix that, and imho the biggest issue with BFGA multiplayer is fixed.

Problem with that, is that it punishes advancement. If an unupgraded ship is cheaper than my veteran ship, and can still do 90% of the same things, why would I want to level it up? It's like in Oblivion where you level up, and then everything levels up more than you - it makes you not want to advance.

I agree with this the only way the progression system would work is if you have a large groups of people at the same level of advancement at the same time and then segregated them into different groups not letting higher levels mix with lower levels...

last edited by imptastic

@orkan This is a good suggestion. 4V4 mode could actually work if players controlled 1-2 ships each.

@romeo said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

@demoulius said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

Personally think the multiplayer experience could be easily fixed in the 1st game. Raise prices on ships with upgrades (maybe even balance abilities with points individually?) and the progression system works just fine. The new player experience was so bad because a lvl 10 ship was the same price as a lvl 1 ship. And even the extra points that you got from the level difference wasent enough to give the low lvl character a fighting chance. Fix that, and imho the biggest issue with BFGA multiplayer is fixed.

Problem with that, is that it punishes advancement. If an unupgraded ship is cheaper than my veteran ship, and can still do 90% of the same things, why would I want to level it up? It's like in Oblivion where you level up, and then everything levels up more than you - it makes you not want to advance.

Well. If your unupgraded ship cant drop bombs, gets boarded once and everyone throws a hissy fit or the guns cant aim for shit while the upgraded ones can then you defenitly want an upgraded ship lol. I think gunnery only upgraded crit chances but with lvling up im not just talking about the crew here. Upgrades like higher accuracy at range, faster reloads for carriers, stealth for those chaos fleets etc etc. There are literrally DOZENS of reason why you do infact want those upgrades. So no, not all lvl 1 ships can do the same thing as lvled up ones. Unless the upgrades that you choose had such a minor impact on how you played your ships, in which case im more left to wonder what upgrades you did infact choose? I noticed significant changes with upgraded ships....

@demoulius i think his point is a full fleet of upgraded ships is not worth the same fleet not upgraded but containing more stock ships. I.e. a fleet containing upgraded cruiser and battle ship would not be worth a fleet of non upgraded light cruiser, cruiser, and a battleship. the extra set of torps/boarding parties alone would be enough to offset the upgrades not to mention the ability to move the ship to split the dps of the other fleet or hell just use it to ram.

@imptastic Pretty sure in that situation the first fleet would win.

@solaire even considering the extra use ablities and sustained dps of having another ships just sitting there firing? I mean some upgrades are good but i dont see them outweighing that.

@imptastic I'd take having my Cruiser and Battleship upgraded over an extra LC any day. I could get better torpedoes, superior maneuvering, More accurate munitions, armor piercing munitions etc. Unupgraded fleet wouldn't stand a chance.

@solaire said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

@imptastic I'd take having my Cruiser and Battleship upgraded over an extra LC any day. I could get better torpedoes, superior maneuvering, More accurate munitions, armor piercing munitions etc. Unupgraded fleet wouldn't stand a chance.

This is far too true, especially since either the player of the unupgraded fleet has to either spend more time micromanaging that extra ship, or put it on auto where it's dumb as a bag of rocks and easily dispatched.

@kadaeux Only hope Non-upgraded fleets have are things like torpedoes and other non-standard weapons.

12 races is a very good stuff. DOW1 Soulstorm is a good example of how to make warhammer games popular.

More races = the game is more popular.

last edited by Makron

@makron said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

12 races is a very good stuff. DOW1 Soulstorm is a good example of how to make warhammer games popular.

More races = the game is more popular.

No, Soulstorm isn't, it was the buggiest and By far the weakest DoW game. (By which I mean DoW1, DoW3 is the worst DoW game)

And that's without mentioning the utterly atrocious 'air units'.

@kadaeux It became fairly popular, but that's only because a certain saint made a god-tier mod for it.

@kadaeux said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

@makron said in How to get multiplayer right in BFGA 2?:

12 races is a very good stuff. DOW1 Soulstorm is a good example of how to make warhammer games popular.

More races = the game is more popular.

No, Soulstorm isn't, it was the buggiest and By far the weakest DoW game. (By which I mean DoW1, DoW3 is the worst DoW game)

And that's without mentioning the utterly atrocious 'air units'.

I disagree with this assessment so much.

Yeah, the air units in Soulstorm suck - the engine wasn't meant for them, and they worked with what they had. And yes, the Eldar are hilariously overpowered (It's the opposite of BFG:A), and the Sisters of Battle had a funny exploit. But the first Dawn of War got progressively better with each release, and as a singleplayer, Soulstorm was phenomenal. A fun, deep RTS that hits all but one of the main 40K races? Awesome.

Hell, throw a little Ultimate Apocalypse on there and the game really becomes something amazing.