What's the connection between SuspensionStrength values and Wheel Mass?

This is messing with my head big time. I noticed today that a certain vehicle/mod I've been using suddenly had a completely collapsed suspension. I did all kinds of troubleshooting to figure out why. What it all boiled down to is by lowering the mass of the wheels it caused the SuspensionStrength value to suddenly become insufficient to keep the suspension from completely collapsing. Which is totally fricken weird because lowering just the SuspensionStrength value itself can't make that happen(because of the SuspensionMin value). And because it's somehow overriding the SuspensionMin value(which is there to prevent the suspension from collapsing/compressing below a certain ride height). Actually that's untested speculation. But I know it's somehow connected to the SuspensionStrength value because increasing it fixes the problem. But so does increasing the Wheel Mass.

Heavier wheels = Stronger suspension?

It takes a stronger suspension to support a vehicle with lighter wheels?

W T F? What kind of sense does any of that make??? And why does this only seem to apply to this particular vehicle/mod? I've never in all my days tweaking vehicles in these games came across this weirdness. My brain hurts...HELP! 😖

Mod = WM 1975 Ford Bronco
"Normal" SuspensionStrength = .005 Front L/R + .006 Rear L/R
"Normal" Wheel Mass = 200

Shown left to right in following pic:

Green
"High" SuspensionStrength = .015 Front L/R + .016 Rear L/R
"Low" Wheel Mass = 75

Blue
"Normal" SuspensionStrength = .005 Front L/R + .006 Rear L/R
"Normal" Wheel Mass = 200

Black
"Normal" SuspensionStrength = .005 Front L/R + .006 Rear L/R
"Low" Wheel Mass = 75

0_1522981546993_20180405192010_1.jpg

Maybe a couple better questions are...

Do you modders know that these Mass values are in kilograms?

WTF is with all the RIDICULOUSLY high Mass values you guys use?

200kg for a single wheel? That's 441lbs. for one of these ~40" wheels. YEAH RIGHT!!! NOT EVEN HALF THAT IN REALITY!!!

SS Bogger 39.5x18/15LT Weight = 112lbs.

So the rim weighs 329lbs?

last edited by MudHappy

@MudHappy
A lot of the numbers in MR are arbitrary units. I just went by examples...

I know Mass is in kilograms because I compared the weight of a default truck in the game with the weight of the real world truck. They were near enough to the same that I know that's what Pavel used as a reference.

@MudHappy
I'm not in front of my PC atm, what's the default template mass for the "superheavy" wheel?

  1. If kgs = 1323lbs.

Yeah, so does a 7310 wheel/tire weigh that much? o.O
Dunno offhand what other truck might use superheavy...

last edited by Mexican_420

Good question. I bet it's a lot closer to correct than a 40" bogger and rim weighing 441lbs. though. But I doubt a single 7310 wheel weighs damn near 3/4 ton. I'd guess 1000lbs. tops. But I'm no expert on the subject. I bet if I search around I can find a decent answer though.

last edited by MudHappy

@MudHappy you come from oovee, c'mon you know spintires was never realistic about this, why the drama now?,
It was LocalHost who actually fixed the issue with his SpintiresPlus (wich i used for everything)and (Suspension_Normalized="0.1" and Damping_Normalized="50" was my setup) I even made a 4wheel steer crawler in wich i could have independent steerring in the axles so no conection from the front axle that controls the rear wheels

Yeah that Bronco has a weight of 3000 which is 6613.86lbs. Over 3 tons. Wow

i don't care too much about "realistic values", i just adjust it until it feels like it should. if that requires for a wheel to "weigh" 400kg then so be it

Yeah, it really don't make no difference. I just thought the weight was closer to real.

@tattoo all my rigs weigh in as much or more than stock semi trucks, the physics behave better with more weight

@hydrowasul said in What's the connection between SuspensionStrength values and Wheel Mass?:

i don't care too much about "realistic values", i just adjust it until it feels like it should. if that requires for a wheel to "weigh" 400kg then so be it

Exactly.
Once you've done it a time or 2, you get a better "feel" for what mass(es) to use where. Tweak it til it feels right. 🙂

@drgonzo1489 i kinda Like to have Real life values for weight on the body of the truck and my wheel mass is always 100 i also add a dinamic weight value that way when the fuel goes down so does the weight

My truck is 2000, in real life it would be around 1700 or 1800 but in game it doesnt feel right, also my tires are I believe 800 because this gives the kind of grip those tires should have in the mud. #genius tires, search it and you will understand

@drgonzo1489 said in What's the connection between SuspensionStrength values and Wheel Mass?:

@tattoo all my rigs weigh in as much or more than stock semi trucks, the physics behave better with more weight

I understand but some realism needs to be there for when using trailers. When I first started, I made a trailer for sids rock crawler, but the thing was so damn heavy, I was having a problem making it work. The weight was set to 6000 which is 13227.73lbs. That's like 3 Cadillac Escalades. hehehe I could barely pull the damn thing and only with a couple powerful trucks. So I said screw it.

My little test mod is set to 500 which is 1102.31lbs and works fine. The wheels are set to 200, tho, which I just realized is 440.92lbs.

@tattoo the weight of the wheels are subtracted from the main body mass so whatever weight you set in the xml, subtract the weight of all 4 wheels combined to know what it actually weighs in-game. I believe its clamped at a min value of 200 tho so it's never 0

As far as realism I don't use stock assets much but if I am then I try and find some balance. Otherwise like my jeep it's all custom and I don't run stock trucks ever so I don't try and mate them because why? I don't play to log I wheel and that's it if they don't play well with stock assets, then they don't. I'm not gonna try and please everyone cause I can't I do what I do how I do it cause that's what feels most realistic to me. It's all perception.....

last edited by DrGoNzO1489

@drgonzo1489, I understand and never meant that you should appease anyone. I was just commenting on the weights. I, honestly, can care less. What ever works. I was just saying about how the trailer I made was working, well not working, actually, because of the weight and I thought the weights were more realistic on default vehicles.

@tattoo I get it I mean to each there own right? I mean you can make a truck climb walls if you want that's the point of modding if that's your thing.

@drgonzo1489 said in What's the connection between SuspensionStrength values and Wheel Mass?:

@tattoo I get it I mean to each there own right? I mean you can make a truck climb walls if you want that's the point of modding if that's your thing.

I've used this phrase often enough, one of these days I'm going to try it... XD

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