What's the connection between SuspensionStrength values and Wheel Mass?

Ok. Great input from the modders. I totally see your points. Basically whatever works...works. Can't argue with that. I've been toying around with more "realistic" Mass values and have found they work too(for the most part). So I was just genuinely curious as to why that's not being done more often.

However...there's still a few things I'm not understanding here:

  • Why does decreasing the Wheel Mass from 200 to 75 make the suspension collapse like that?

  • Why does increasing the SupensionStrength compensate for a lower Wheel Mass?

  • Why does increasing the Wheel Mass compensate for a lower SuspensionStrength?

  • Why is this the only vehicle I've found that any of this applies to?

last edited by MudHappy

@mudhappy that's how it's been from the start man never been different except when localhost had a fix in spintires plus mod. That being said. The heavier the vehicle the heavier the wheels should be. This is an issue because when your trying to use realistic values the wheels end up very light in comparison to the body mass. Having this kind of offset in weight can and does work but will cause clipping issues with the tires and ground rocks etc... This becomes more of an issue in mud, also on a side note, lighter wheels are less effective in mud, Why? idk but they are. As I stated before the wheel weight is subtracted from the main body mass and there's some correlation to the suspension strength value during this calculation aswell. Heavier wheels make suspension stronger. This holds true through the game heavy connected to heavy =strong light on light weak and buggy.... play with cdts you will understand what I mean.....

@DrGoNzO1489 What I don't know about ST might surprise you. This being one of those things. I got pissed off with the whole scene and decided to bail on it before any good mods or maps were released. All kinds of things went on afterwards which I have no clue of. And frankly don't give a fuck about. My opinion of ST remains unchanged. It sucks and I hate it. And I don't really want anything to do with it. Other than converting ST mods to MR.

Anyway...I think I understand what you're saying, about as well as it can be understood. It makes about as much sense as it doesn't make any sense at all. But whatever. Now I have a better idea of what I'm dealing with. So if/when it applies, it applies. If/when it doesn't, it doesn't. I guess I'll know which is which when I get there.

Thanks for the reply.

last edited by MudHappy

@mudhappy it just doesn't make sense.... bottom line, this is the main reason I'm switching to collision axle type builds, there complicated but they make sense in reality..... lol

@drgonzo1489, Yeah but once you get one done, it's kinda like a template for the rest.

@drgonzo1489 said in What's the connection between SuspensionStrength values and Wheel Mass?:

Having this kind of offset in weight can and does work but will cause clipping issues with the tires and ground rocks etc...

I've been struggling with this for a while now, and what you said above has got me thinking, I'm not in front on my comp right now, but to clarify, my wheels tend to clip through rocks and obstacles, is this because they are too light for the truck?

I found that having heavier wheels makes them reduces the softness, has anyone else found that too? This why I tend to use lighter values for wheels as I like really soft tyres.

Community Moderator - MudRunner

here is a list @MudHappy feel free to compare/use/adjust to fit your mods needs

Note that:
All of my mods use real life weights
All of my wheels are 100 mass tires
and my center of mass wont go lower -0.25 to -0.4 and is most of the time 0.05 to 0.1 forward in the X axis giving to the mod a bit more weight on the front tires depending on how far the rear axle is from the center (willis is the exception because it doesnt have that offset in the center of mass) and the m37 being the only one with -0.4 in Y axis

for a 1700kg truck (Blazers 75 to 85)

<Wheel>
	<RearWheel
		ConnectedToHandbrake="true"
		HardpointOffsetY="-0.27"
		SuspensionDamping="0.17"
		SuspensionMin="-0.5"
		SuspensionMax="0.4"
		SuspensionStrength="0.009"
		Torque="default"
		Type="100 mas tire)"
		ParentFrame="Chassis_cdt"
	/>
	<FrontWheel
		HardpointOffsetY="-0.20"
		SteeringAngle="40"
		SteeringCastor="8"
		SuspensionDamping="0.15"
		SuspensionMin="-0.5"
		SuspensionMax="0.4"
		SuspensionStrength="0.0095"
		Torque="full"
		Type="(100 mass tire)"
		ParentFrame="Chassis_cdt"
	/>
</Wheel>

For a Small GPV swb(around 1200 kg)

	<Wheel>
	<RearWheel
		ConnectedToHandbrake="true"
		HardpointOffsetY="-0.22"
		SuspensionMin="-0.4"
		SuspensionStrength="0.008"
		Torque="default"
		Type="CJ-BFG-35-12-R15in"
		ParentFrame="Chassis_cdt"
	/>
	<FrontWheel
		HardpointOffsetY="-0.22"
		SteeringAngle="40"
		SteeringCastor="8"
		SuspensionMin="-0.42"
		SuspensionStrength="0.007"
		Torque="full"
		Type="CJ-BFG-35-12-R15in"
		ParentFrame="Chassis_cdt"
	/>
</Wheel>

and for big old mil 4x4 (taken from my M37) the mass of the wheels is 200 because is a 44 and this game seems to hate big,wide tires with small weights

<Wheel>
	<RearWheel
		ConnectedToHandbrake="true"
		HardpointOffsetY="-0.22"
		SuspensionDamping="0.08"
		SuspensionMin="-0.47"
		SuspensionMax="0.1"
		SuspensionStrength="0.007"
		Torque="default"
		Type="M37_BFG_44_21_16in"
		ParentFrame="Chassis_cdt"
	/>
	<FrontWheel
		HardpointOffsetY="-0.18"
		SteeringAngle="40"
		SteeringCastor="8"
		SuspensionDamping="0.08"
		SuspensionMin="-0.48"
		SuspensionMax="0.1"
		SuspensionStrength="0.0065"
		Torque="full"
		Type="M37_BFG_44_21_16in"
		ParentFrame="Chassis_cdt"
	/>
</Wheel>

and for road cars with no lift (taken from my F100)
tire mas 100

<Wheel>
	<RearWheel
		ConnectedToHandbrake="true"
		HardpointOffsetY="-0.15"
		SuspensionDamping="0.17"
		SuspensionMin="-0.4"
		SuspensionStrength="0.008"
		Torque="default"
		Type="Gy_R_L_28_11_20in_L"
		ParentFrame="Chassis_cdt"
	/>
	<FrontWheel
		HardpointOffsetY="-0.2"
		SteeringAngle="40"
		SteeringCastor="8"
		SteeringJointOffset="0.2"
		SuspensionDamping="0.165"
		SuspensionMin="-0.38"
		SuspensionStrength="0.015"
		Type="Gy_R_L_28_11_20in_L"
		ParentFrame="Chassis_cdt"
	/>
</Wheel>
last edited by Forces

Bottom line, the weight of the cdt(yes wheels have cdts aswell there generated by the game) have to comply with reality in some way ie bigger the cdt the heavier said cdt should be. Not following this rule of thumb will cause minor issues. I'm not saying you have to just sharing my experience thru the 4 yrs I've modded this game....

@mudhappy said in What's the connection between SuspensionStrength values and Wheel Mass?:

  • Why does decreasing the Wheel Mass from 200 to 75 make the suspension collapse like that?
  • Why is this the only vehicle I've found that any of this applies to?

I suspected it had something to do with coil springs vs. leaf springs. Since I've never seen it happen with leaf springs, and that Bronco has coils. Turns out I was right.

EDIT: Turns out I was wrong. It doesn't have anything to do with coils vs. leafs. My investigation continues...

last edited by MudHappy

@mudhappy lol no suspension type has 0 to do with it that's completely aesthetic. You have to setup the suspension to act like it looks.

@drgonzo1489 said in What's the connection between SuspensionStrength values and Wheel Mass?:

You have to setup the suspension to act like it looks.

Or setup the vehicle so the suspension acts like it looks. It's which way to do it is the "right" way that's still up for debate IMO. I'm leaning towards using realistic mass values, and setting up the suspension accordingly. Since I'm not seeing the problems that's supposed to cause actually happening. But I'm keeping in mind that it might be problematic. If/when it does become so, my mind can be changed.

last edited by MudHappy

@mudhappy yea I just find heavier vehicles when done correctly act much more realistically. I'm not saying this is absolutely the case. Because I've built both ways. Heavier rigs do other things for me aswell like act realistically with trees and the ground. All to often I see huge trucks stopped and lifted off the ground by a small dead bush. The games physics environment has been designed around huge heavy rigs so light trucks don't stand a chance. Heavy rigs also deform the ground much better which is a personal reason for liking it aswell so what it all comes down to is. It's modding there really is no right or wrong way. Just what works for you, and what your trying to achieve. For me this is how I make my rigs for how I play the game. Different strokes for different folks.

@Forces are we able to post code now, or are those screenshots lol?!

Community Moderator - MudRunner

@drgonzo1489 its code just leave a space or a line away from normal text

@forces cool so it detects xml.

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