Grand strategy type campaign

I don't know like you but this new, aspect of the game worries me. I wonder how it will be executed. This is now popular due to the success of total war games but to be honest total war series is poor if you looks at it from the right angle. Turns stretches to eternity, AI does some weird stuff, it is wide open to exploits, diplomacy does not work, AI do not have such thing as an economy, it makes units from the air even if it has not the necessary buildings and does now worry about such details as upkeep, and so one and so one. These games are popular for some reason but I tell you that I have enough and I doubt that I will buy any another "great" underdeveloped, overambitious AAA total war title for 60€ just because battles look nice.

I would rather like some simpler but easier to control and correct, if needed campaign. Just think about this, the game comes out and there are some exploits and/or some other stuff that needs to by fix. So developers are spending time on rethinking and changing stuff that can generate some other problems. I would rather like that they spend time on some other things that trying to fix an overcomplicated system, especially when the studio is not the largest. Do you remember how long we have been waiting for patches in the first game? Such stuff is great, yes, but only when it works and I would rather like to buy and play some game that does work.

I dont think the grand strategy aspects of the game will be as hardcore as total war. This is tindalos we are talking about here. 😃 The grand strategy most likely will be more in line with what we saw in BFG leviathan and DoW DC on a star map with some added mechanics. Also we are not dealing with 30+ factions like in TW.

Its safe to say that it will be simplified which is not even a bad thing cause you already pointed out the myriad of quirks and flaws TW had.

If tindalos said they would try to emulate TW i doubt that they had announced the release year for 2018... Would have been more like 2020.

I wouldnt worry man.

@grey-seer well in the warhammer universe why would u want diplomacy!

@Grey-Seer

Frankly, if we get something as complex as Total War, this will likely be my game of the year. Never-the-less, I think @CANNED_F3TUS is correct in saying we likely will get something more akin to the first Dawn of War games in that you're not dealing with diplomacy and research, just finances and "where to attack".

I do not say that I expect some kind of diplomacy in the campaign. I do not think that all fleets will be represented there too. war of cadian gate ware war between chaos and Imperium with some marginal participation of some xenos but not on the fleets level. But still, such campaign brings problems and campaigns form dark crusade and soul storm were terrible would really don't like if BFGA 2 went in such direction and this may bring more work after the release, work that could go in some other direction.

@grey-seer said in Grand strategy type campaign:

I do not say that I expect some kind of diplomacy in the campaign. I do not think that all fleets will be represented there too. war of cadian gate ware war between chaos and Imperium with some marginal participation of some xenos but not on the fleets level. But still, such campaign brings problems and campaigns form dark crusade and soul storm were terrible would really don't like if BFGA 2 went in such direction and this may bring more work after the release, work that could go in some other direction.

Dark crusade and soulstorm campaign worked fairly smoothly. It lacked decent narrative though imo but i think tindalos will cover that part well cause they did an alright job with it in their first game.

Sofar they mentioned that 3 races initialy will have campaigns so in a way maybe we will get a compartmentalized meta game for each race and not necessarily something as big as a grand strategy.

I just dont think they are gonna go that crazy in depth with their campaigns in terms of mechanics.

I think my highest expectation from them is a simple meta map with territories (like DoW 1 DC) Most of them being simple cruiser clash missions. With occasional special missions and hopefully even with decision based missions that influence the ending in some way or give you bonuses during the campaign.

Depending on which faction you are playing as you are only gonna be facing 5 other factions at most which isnt to bad.

The most important thing though is that the narrative is done well imo and the story is good for each faction.

@grey-seer said in Grand strategy type campaign:

I do not say that I expect some kind of diplomacy in the campaign. I do not think that all fleets will be represented there too. war of cadian gate ware war between chaos and Imperium with some marginal participation of some xenos but not on the fleets level. But still, such campaign brings problems and campaigns form dark crusade and soul storm were terrible would really don't like if BFGA 2 went in such direction and this may bring more work after the release, work that could go in some other direction.

Soulstorm was terrible for several reasons, it's Campaign wasn't one of them.

And Dark Crusade's Campaign was the strongest of the series. Not the strongest story but the strongest Campaign, by absolute miles.

BFG:A2 would do very well if they decided to simply go that route with minimalist storytelling. But it'd also do well going the BFG:A storytelling route too.

But the comparisons aren't perfect anyway. Dawn of War had little in the way of persistence, and Dawn of War 2 was more an RTT-RPG than an RTS, so while it had persistence it had no real development in the way of getting new units until Retribution... which was marred by a LITERAL copy-paste campaign whose only differences was who you killed off in the first mission. (I understand that Relic was under pressure, but gods above, whoever was responsible for that decision should be taken out back and beaten with jumper cables.)

Community Manager

Hi guys, BFG:A 2 campaign will feature a lot more content than BFG:A 1, and some element of grand strategy, but don't expect a Total War in 40K!

Tindalos is a small talented team but Creative Assembly is a studio of 500 devs.

last edited by Netheos

@netheos said in Grand strategy type campaign:

Hi guys, BFG:A 2 campaign will feature a lot more content than BFG:A 1, and some element of grand strategy, but don't expect a Total War in 40K!

Tindalos is a small talented team but Creative Assembly is a studio of 500 devs.

I don't think any of us were actually expecting that of you, that would've been incredibly unfair. I was just saying that to the OP as I think condemning Total War is disingenuous.

I do not expect such things as in total war series. I just used it as an example that most grand strategy games do not work due to multiple factors and total war is the most popular example. But there are other ones like Hearts of Iron, great game on its own but it is easy to provoke AI to do strange things and this game and easy to exploit it. Some grand strategy games works better, such like Stellaris due to the fact that this game has no frames of some hard based universe or historical events like in the case of HoI4 or total wars, WH40k has such frames and it will not work without the effort we have never seen before and the chances for such is slime because as Netheos have said, Tindalos is a small team. HoI4 is still popular, in development and it will be for a long time, Creative Assembly apparently does not care because they jump from title to title and do little to make some serious improvement in this matter and there hardcore and large customer base allow it. Will we be able to say the same about BFGA2?

Campaigns in the Dark Crusade and Soul Storm were terrible like the games themselves. Lousy map with little more then skirmishes instead of proper missions, not to mention dumb plot.

I just will say in my OP that I would rather not see overambitious approach to the campaign that will be bound to create problems and developers will be forced to spend time on fixing it after the launch. The case is not what we will, but what they can do. There are many examples of developers that promises golden mountains and after the release, all they have to offer are some paltry excuses at best.

@grey-seer said in Grand strategy type campaign:

Campaigns in the Dark Crusade and Soul Storm were terrible like the games themselves. Lousy map with little more then skirmishes instead of proper missions, not to mention dumb plot.

BURN THE HERETIC.

@romeo said in Grand strategy type campaign:

@grey-seer said in Grand strategy type campaign:

Campaigns in the Dark Crusade and Soul Storm were terrible like the games themselves. Lousy map with little more then skirmishes instead of proper missions, not to mention dumb plot.

BURN THE HERETIC.

No. We need something more ... compelling.

Get me an asylum room that we can broadcast non-stop episodes of Teletubbies, Justin Bieber, and annoying Orange episodes into contantly while his (or hers etc) eyelids are stapled open to watch people paint a Forgeworld Warlord Titan with unthinned 3rd Edition GW paints using an extra large brush.

@imptastic In BFGA1 earning Favor was a very generic form of Diplomacy. Why wouldn't we want to see a more in-depth system? Don't assume everybody that's a part of the Imperium automatically likes, works, and plays well with one another.

@bellumvinco I understand what your trying to convey but they have already stated that the imperium campaign will be using the 3 imperium factions at the same time. Outside of that diplomacy victories and the like are boring and overall kinda put a damper on the everyone hates everyone and their cats too vibe the 40k universe so lovingly conveys. As for them not liking each other... irrelevant the emperor commands it so they must do it.

@netheos said in Grand strategy type campaign:

Hi guys, BFG:A 2 campaign will feature a lot more content than BFG:A 1, and some element of grand strategy, but don't expect a Total War in 40K!

Tindalos is a small talented team but Creative Assembly is a studio of 500 devs.

I hope for something akin to Star Wars: Empire at War. Means supplies (as money) to buy or upgrade ships or fleets, not necessarily buildings for planets but more the same planet bonus system as in BFGA1. Maybe the option to pay for System Defense Fleet garrisons and star forts or planet based lasers and torpedos (again, like in SW EaW). One thing I would love are stable warp lanes like the hyperlanes in SW EaW that gave your fleets extra speed between certain systems. But of course the whole thing should be turn-based as in BGFA1, not this strange semi-realtime Petroglyph did.

last edited by Hjalfnar_HGV

@imptastic The Emperor hasn't issued a command in 10,000 years.

@bellumvinco Not quite true. His Saints are evidence of his empowering normal people to carry out his will. And he explicitly grants Jaq Draco not only the means to enter the throne room (via flat out stopping time for everyone else in the Sol system) but ends up giving him orders regarding why Jaq was there. (But the Jaq Draco series in the same stroke demonstrates the Emperor, in his current state, is not fit to be giving orders on any sort of large scale. His is FAR too pre-occupied.)

last edited by Kadaeux

@kadaeux said in Grand strategy type campaign:

@bellumvinco Not quite true. His Saints Greater Daemons are evidence of his empowering normal people Cultists to carry out his will.

FTFY. 😛

@romeo said in Grand strategy type campaign:

@kadaeux said in Grand strategy type campaign:

@bellumvinco Not quite true. His Saints Greater Daemons are evidence of his empowering normal people Cultists to carry out his will.

FTFY. 😛

I see you haven't read Jaq Draco 😛

Because if the events of it and Jaqs perception are true, then Imperial Saints may not simply be being empowered by the Emperor, but actually are being manifested with part of the Emperors Legion-style personality. (We know the Emperor created himself by all the Shamans choosing to reincarnate in a single body and single mind at the same time, deliberately. The Draco books show you that the Emperor is nearly complete batshit bonkers, the Emperor only gave Jaq the tiniest nano-scale microbe of his attention, and still Jaq's mind was taken apart and put back together.

Now look at Saint Sabbat, she was killed prior to the Sabbat Worlds crusade (duh) and yet, during it, she's resurrected (well sort of, if possessing another womans body is resurrection). Take that sort of information, and what if the original Saint Sabbat was never named Sabbat, but one of the Emperor's personalities, a Shaman named Sabbat, possessed her to do what had to be done.

To do what the Emperor himself, as a whole, could not do anymore?

@kadaeux As far as I know the whole shaman thing is not the official background anymore. The Emperor is just the most powerful human perpetual of all times, according to John Grammaticus. Probably the very first human one.

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