Countering the 'Chaos Kill-team'

You know the type; Chaos, complete with claws, Mighty blow and Piling on all over the shop.
The Ball is treated like a graphical flourish more than an integral element of the game as trying to force a concession is the priority for this kill-capable, murder--happy 'team'.

It's a valid and let's face it, boring and cheesy way to play Blood Bowl. Is there a team that does not succumb to the murderous desires of The Chaos Kill-Squad and can abregate some of their efficiently violent capabilities? I was thinking Skaven or Wood Elves. Most of their team have AV7, so Claw is abregated and they're kinda geared toward evading confrontation. Having said that, The Skaven can get access to Claw-Pomb.

So, While other lumbering 'bash' teams are the prime prey for The Chaos Killers, does anyone have any advice on surviving and defeating that effective, boring and frustrating type of encounter?

Skaven all the way...laugh at the wasted claw TV. Dodge away. Plus you can build 1-2 killer vermin of your own to fight fire with fire. Use linerats and bench to protect the gutters and foul any piling oners and if you get a chance with inducements get some Apos and babes. Kick...survive, try and remove some of their players and if you can go in 1-1 and putting out 9-11 players you're laughing...! Then do it all again until your team disintegrates and you play some chaos as payback...

Ok! Sounds like a plan. It'll take some adaptation to get used to Skaven but you know, there's enough pure-bash out there and it's kinda the easy option so I'm ready to get my rat on!

You could always play Nurgle or Chorfs and kill the Killers 😛

At high TV when they add tackle to their other kill skills you just need to hope the injury dice aren't hot. Before then the AG teams should be able to dodge away and win the ball portion of the match.

While skaven can get their own claw, they also have AG3 linerats with few skills. So they cannot get away from the killers as well as an unskilled elf lineman can, so its a trade off.

What the claw teams do is keep the straight bash from getting to too high of a TV. If all the dwarves and orcs didn't have claw to worry about they would continue their TV climb, and its a lot harder to win against high TV bash with dash than it is to win against the claw teams.

I think it's a bit paper scissors rock but when you go skaven with the aim to go higher TV...chaos not so much of a problem (esp if they neglect tackle cause they need the fifth player with piling on...🤔) but you just don't want to spin a high tv guard mb po spammed dwarf team...

@real-scotticus said in Countering the 'Chaos Kill-team':

as trying to force a concession is the priority for this kill-capable, murder--happy 'team'

You are just projecting your pixel-hugger's feelings onto other players. For most of "evil chaos killer team coaches" the goal will be to clear the pitch, not force you to concede. Actually, a lot of them get irritated if the other player drops from game preemptively. They play the game more like a classical tactical wargame, not a football game. And that's totally according to the game's designs, otherwise it would have been discouraged at some point in the past (game has survived 6 rules' editions) They don't care much about your pixels and your feelings about them, just play it the way they like it. You can try to play a team with general AV close to 7 so that Claw would not make much difference. Or you could try no-bash league, if you want to play ball 100% of a time.

last edited by Mori-Mori

The hardest chaos teams I play against weren't the scary kill teams....though you're going to have bad days against them. It was team which just had some tackle guard some ball skills, didn't take every block going just because...and just played the game. Didn't have much piling on and if so didn't pile on every time...If your plan a and b is removals when that doesn't happen you're a bit stuck. I played one team who ended the first turn with 4 players on the floor through pile ons! Got to admire dedication to cause!

Learn advantages and disadvantages of whatever you are playing. AGI4 teams can just disconnect at 2+, limit chaos to 1 block per turn and win the game even with 5 players left. Regular bash (dorfs, orcs), mix of bash and kill (chorfs, khemri), would have taken more guard than chaos killers, and have as many or more mighty blow. If you hit first, it's easy win even if you end up with few more cas on your side than usual. True killers norse can just outkill chaos, you just offer them medicine of their own. Regen teams work samey like bash. They cas you, you get regen, they do not. Just make sure you can score before they bring too many of your guys on reserves bench. Any real problems are for teams which are mostly good vs elves, as speed without agility is not that sexy, and your damage potential nor strength is not great.

Generally, always consider fouling. A good foul is unparalleled in effectiveness of removals (and saw is unparalleled for fouling). If you can't prevent them from scoring, go for hurting. Generally do not be a rabbit in headlights. Do not play the victim. Make sure you actually play a game and stop self-pitying yourself when somebody has better toys. They paid their dues to get there iykwim . Does not mean your toys are any less effective and you can deal with losing them far better than chaos can.

All sounds like good advice. 'Play a kill-team and kill them!' Is also valid, but it's not really the path I want to take!
The tale of the Chaos team who can, you know...actually play Blood Bowl is interesting.

I'm sorely tempted to build a non-kill chaos team. With mutations like two-headsr, big hand, extra arms, foul appearance and such, it would be possible to create an interesting running team of reeeeeeally freaky-lookin' misfits! Maybe have one claw-pomber and one fouler just to keep them other kill teams in line, but yeah, play a Chaos squad in a more ball-oriented manner. Could be fun!

I thought the ball WAS a graphical flourish... damn. Such oversight...

So the thing about kill chaos... it's what they do and it takes awhile to get there, so don't begrudge them their MO when they finally level up because we don't begrudge the Wardancer his starting skills.

As to a diversified Chaos team; in general that is a path to rubbish. It's all fine and good if it interests you and that's great, go have fun and make the team however you want. But If you are going to win reliably, you need the appropriate amount of kill on the roster and should avoid strategies that take you too far astray from that. An AG goat is great, you do need one ball handler afterall, but there is no good reason to go whole hog on a raft of strange, multilimbed big appendaged goats. This is just wasted TV where you can easily focus on guard in addition to the kill and be a robust Chaos team that is not only feared but effective. You are not an elf, you are a goat. Be the goat. Block, sure hands, AG bonus, dodge on doubles, that's all it takes. Leave the foul appearance and disturbing presence to Nurgle, and if you simply must have that on your roster, go play Nurgle!

last edited by darthphysicist

If you wanna play bashy, just take guard as your first skill on like... everyone. They're too busy taking kill skills to match you in the guard race. Don't leave guys isolated for them to pick off and pile-on without risk of foul. Prioritize gang-fouling anyone who uses Piling On. If they base your dudes, just block them off. (1D block if you have the block skill is about the same as an elf dodging away). Position your dudes so that if they blitz your better players they'll have to leave their killer in position for retaliation. Block him down and foul him to death. Remember, Beastmen are only av8. If they base you, crush their skulls! Foul chaos warriors to death. Kill the kill team, they rely on developed players, mercilessly target their best players with removal and you might get a conceede from them early on.

Most teams are very capable of beating chaos kill teams. You might take a few perms/deaths along the way, but that’s blood bowl. At equal TV if you play to your strengths & their weaknesses then you can beat them.

At particularly high TV differences the non kill team is even arguably at an advantage now that you can induce lvl 2 mercs for dirty players.

So many different ways to beat them, and it really comes down to a combination of nuffle + coaching ability.

Beating is not a problem is true, but in some enviroments (open ladder) surviving is more important than winning unfortunately

I would love an stadium with extra babe and/or extra medic