Champion Ladder Tie Breakers
BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

So the unlikely has happened. I shouldn't be surprised - this is Blood Bowl - but 2 teams have come top of their race with the same number of games played and the same win% (and therefore exactly the same number of points). Currently we have no idea how the in-game standings differentiate between such records (it's not something obvious like TD difference), so that is what we are going for at the moment.

Given the unknown nature of the in-game ladder, we need an official tiebreaker to prevent this happening again. The suggestion the admin team has is:

  1. Fewest concessions by the team.
  2. Fewest concessions by the coach.
  3. TD difference.
  4. Cas difference.

Since the competition is inter-race 3 and 4 shouldn't be affected by any perceived racial bias, so it should be equitable.

As previously discussed, we're putting this suggestion to the community so if anyone has any major issues with it or potential improvements we can discuss them. If accepted this proposal will go into effect for Season 16, with the current season using the in-game standings.

Current system is probably a coin flip. Fewest concessions is a pretty bad tiebreaker, TD difference is ok, I'd have whoever the two people are this season play each other in a one-game playoff, baseball style

I agree with Beezle. A one game friendly takes care of all the race bias you worry about and has more significance than using concedes as a tiebreaker.

Using concedes as a tiebreaker is completely arbitrary. Sometimes, life happens. The loss and giving away your MVP should be penalty enough. Also, it would further encourage "soft concedes".

If a one game playoff isn't viable, I think TD differential is better than concedes. Again, part of the bias is gone since it's two teams of the same race. Although they may have different opponent races, those changes are largely normalized over 42 games.

BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

One game playoff isn't viable. We've only just got time to play the playoffs as it is.

Edit: That said, it may be possible to check for the unlikely possibility of a head-to-head during the season.

last edited by dode74

Fewest concessions are ok. As it is stated, it is unlikely to happen often since players are in control of their results at all times and can avoid having same record at will. I like it for psychological effect it might have to discourage concessions.

However, since it is always within coach's power to avoid exact record, bar the cutoff of CCL, I'd use only one tie breaker, who got the record first. I see no reason to incentivize somebody trying to exploit somebody being in work/sleeping/wutevs, playing games last day(s), and coming short of just one game to avoid exact record.

TD difference is a good tiebreaker, I agree with the others concerns about conceding. Concedes are already part of the calculations for points, it seems arbitrary to basically use it twice by also making it a tie breaker.

Also TD difference is traditional for tournament scoring/tiebreaking in blood bowl. I think making that the top tiebreaker makes the most sense. It does carry some racial bias... but so does the game. Concedes technically carry some racial bias as well.

But tie breakers, imo, should not be something already used in the original calculation. Coach concedes could do that, but honestly it seems awkward.

BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

@gatorlover said in Champion Ladder Tie Breakers:

Concedes are already part of the calculations for points

No, they're not. They were supposed to be but Cyanide found it problematic to manage. That's why we looked at concessions as a tiebreaker.

Well there we go then, I 100% agree then that they make the best tie breaker. For some reason I thought it was only the "no concede bonus" that was problematic, and that concedes worth still worth less than losses in the calculations. My mistake.

I still think fewest concession by the coach is awkward for a system meant to rank teams, not coaches.

@triperis I like Trip's idea. First to get the record.

In the very rare instances you get to no.4 with no split, I'd suggest TOTAL TD and then TOTAL CAS

TD difference is less fair than concessions, as it depends on how many times you faced certain races like woodies proelves or skaven.

@onannia said in Champion Ladder Tie Breakers:

@triperis I like Trip's idea. First to get the record.

So playing early season should have another advantage over late season? No thanks. I think not having to face high level clawpomb teams is enough reward for getting your games in early.

Make them play against each other using there teams to determine who goes through simple

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