Feedback - Hybrids and Auto-guns vs Terminator Armor (Balance in game vs in universe)

Hybrids with auto guns shouldn't be doing damage to terminator armor. I'm pretty sure this argument has been heard before.

Essentially, if matching in universe, the damage should be 0 or 0.001, which essentially makes the hybrid near useless as a resource in the game (from a developer perspective based purely on damage).

I have an idea how to fix this, in the way that the thorax swarm is used more as a debuff than a source of damage. When under fire from an auto-gun, the terminator should be affected by a debuff, movement speed slowed down, slight stumbling (affecting accuracy and recoil) and reduced melee attack speed. You can scale the level of debuff depending on how many auto-guns are shooting the terminator.

This would prevent the auto-gun from being as devastating in-game it currently is (not matching in the 40k universe) while still providing a threat in of itself by providing heavy weapon hybrids to do their job. For the sake of balancing with the debuff in mind, provide the heavy weapon hybrids with a slight buff to damage and fire rate, picking up the slack for the auto-guns lack of damage. Hybrid spawns could be tweaked so that they spawn in squads, 3 auto-gun to each heavy weapon.

Essentially, this would make the hybrids with the auto-gun effective while retaining the power level of terminator armor as represented in the 40k universe. Thanks for reading!

last edited by OmegaBlackZero

Hello,

I agree with most of this.
Particulary about the hybrids with autoguns being such a threat.
But i don't have any idea on how to fix this.
Actually, i feel like they deal far too much damage, while also inflicting far too much of a debuff for accuracy.
Dividing their individual damage and debuff by 2 would be a base, imho. Especially the accuracy debuff.

You do raise a fair point! I'll pass that to the devs. Thank you for your suggestion 👍

@omegablackzero essentially there should be a rage buff given to all T’s suffering the annoyance of having small insignificant pebbles defacing their ornate armour and adding sound pollution over the comm-chatter as this is, at most, what autogun fire will equate to even at point blank range. The rage should build while the fire is sustained until the “power fist of CUT IT OUT” puts order back to the situation like a divine flyswat!💥💀☠😡

last edited by steakboy1

First level on No mercy is no joke, you barley get to the first door without dying.

I was personally stunned when I played 1st mission back then, and died on first enemies that were these ranged weapon hybrids. I noticed they had small caliber weapons that should AT MOST scratch the paint from terminator armour, but laughter died on my lips when I also saw my health bar blink red, before that notorious "you have brought shame to the chapter" text.

In lore terminator armours shrug off cannon rounds and most ballistic projectiles. These stubbers should not be a threat by any means, it feels so stupid hybrids are more dangerous than purebreed genestealers. Since I approve the deadliness of normal genestealers, as by lore they hava adamantium claw that ARE capable to hack through our armours.

Issues are with rangd hybrids. Should they be there at all. Their weapons (krak missiles and autoguns) should not be any threat, I would accept them as mere nuisances, but not as the most deadliest of enemies in this game.

Game-wise, with respect to lore and reality, would it be impossible to either turn them into "sentries" to alarm more genestealers, than be a threat of their own? and make their weapon just a tool for increasing noise level that aggro more enemies to terminator location (see my list of suggestions/fixes https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/6981/suggestion-for-immersion-and-fixes)

@voldo the original lore stated their claws could rend adamantium, but close enough absolutely. Showing my age here, in the 1st edition of the rules (Rogue Trader) I was playing a close friend and was attacked by a unit of Terminators and they demolished my 10 man Squat Heavy weapon squad armed with 9 Heavy Bolters (Squats were awesome) and the sole survivor had a measly combat knife with a miniscule chance to survive the close combat let alone damage the attacking T, when to the spectators, the Space Marine player and my own surprise, I not only hit, but penetrated the armour and he failed the overwhelming save % to die! But this was unique and probably never repeated again lmao, so having these big headed, Sloth from the ‘Goonies’ hybrids with overrated nerf weapons consistently take health from T’s is ridiculous. Old man reminisce ramble over😖
Actually a Krak missile should be a threat but never guaranteed. Originally Hybrids had Heavy Plasma Cannons in the tabletop boxed expansions. (And the genestealer patriarch was the badass of the lot)

last edited by steakboy1

@steakboy1 Terminator armours shrug off most ballistic weapons, if they would fall to so meagre weapons as autoguns/krak missiles they would be never used in books/games as frontal assault.

The thing with clawed genestealers that "each one is deadly as the another one", mostly because their claws can puncture though the heavy terminator armour, not necessarily killing the astartes inside it but mostly damaging the suit : severing cables and power source, thus making terminator more vulnerable to other genestealer attacks until kill strike or suit fails the terminator, making it his tomb.

Some damage redcution should be made to ranged hybrids in my opinion, at No Mercy one krak missile on torso made armor deep orange (with +20% armor and +30%hp limbs) which is a bit strange. Or not to touch enemy hp/damage levels on higher diff levels, just add bigger enemy waves in addition of randomized events (no lights, no fully revealed map, no tracking radar blips on enemy movement) or so.

@voldo it seems you have misinterpreted my post, but besides that, a Krak missile (armour piercing) is in a totally different league to an autogun. Regardless, I agreed and just told about an old battle with a totally unlikely outcome. Read carefully and you will see there wasn’t any difference in point of view!🤓Btw the 1st lore regarding genestealers was a tale recalled of the original slaughter of my beloved Blood Angels in the earliest known encounter, and the description was of their multiple arms and razor sharp rending claws, rearing the adamantium plates as if they were tissue paper leaving both armour and the unfortunate Space Marine strewn around the corridors. Their superhuman strength and physics does the rest. It also described them swarming the T’s and the unlucky were the ones unable to fight back, meaning that most damage was inflicted from above, behind and any angle that storm Bolter or power fist couldn’t reach. Imagine the panic of hearing the claws tearing into the only security of the tactical dreadnought armour💀☠

last edited by steakboy1

@steakboy1 said in Feedback - Hybrids and Auto-guns vs Terminator Armor (Balance in game vs in universe): Imagine the panic of hearing the claws tearing

But we know NO fear, Brother. Feeling fear is impossibility to us. The rush of adrenalive from battle, the keen senses guiding us to terminate the xenos, the mutant, the heretic! Twin hearts pumping till the last drop of blood until we hasten to the Emperor's side.

@voldo fear and panic I can discern between. Fear makes an odour, panic makes the reflexes sharper