8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]

Limiting the maximum number of AI teams per competition to 8 is not good not good at all.

In the last Beta we were able to have as many teams as we wanted. I don't see a logical reason to now limit them. My brother and i only wanna play in a private league filled to the brim with AI teams and a couple friends.

Also If you allow mixed teams for competitions you should be able to put them in as AI teams. Same goes for starplayer teams.

Also for TV of AI teams. There should be am option to decide the TV of AI teams you can put into competitions.

Somthing like <= 1000 TV, 1000+ TV, 2000+ TV, 3000+ TV So you can populate different competition like bronze, silver, gold and platinum division within the same League.

I love that you put work into this but please don't gimp the system now by introducing these limitations on us.

In regards to the AI Teams limit of 8. This kills the whole feature. I will not play in an online league with other coaches except my brother and select friends. So thanks for nothing Cyanide.

And don't you tell us its not doable. An AI team is nothing but a Datasheet entry holding some numbers as long as its not beeing played against. So excuse me when i am a litte infuriated by this Bull decision.

last edited by Periclitor
Focus Team

There is a technical reason however, the AI matches simulation are done serverside and can be dangerous for the global stability if too much matches are simulating in the same time.

8 teams seems like a good compromise.

No it isn't a good compromise. 8 Teams is a middlefinger with a smug grin thats all. Technical side riiiiiight. So it lets me have 20 competitions with 160 AI teams total but not one competition with ~22 makes total sense. Cyanide fix your crap.

The Feature might aswell be not in the game this way.

Also if it effects server stability then you have 2 options that would fix the problem.

  1. Make the simulation clientside. My PC is strong enough to simulate 20 leagues at the same time.

or

  1. Get a better server infrastructure. But i guess thats no option because you would have to invest money then.

I mean its not like we are asked to pay everytime you add a few teams here and there. Oh wait i forgot there was Blood Bowl, then there was Blood Bowl Legendary Edition, then Chaos Edition, then there was Blood Bowl 2 wich was so broken that you had to give a bunch of teams for free so you wouldn't piss off the last of your customers and now we have Blood Bowl 2 Legendary Edition.

I have all those games just FYI. If you promise AI teams for online competition then you have to deliver them. But yeah why would you do anything to have satisfied customers. Right ? RIIIIGHT ?!

last edited by Periclitor

@Focus_Guillaume

  1. Why are you simulating my private multiplayer league matches on your servers? Why not implement them the same way that solo leagues are?

  2. How come I can make 20 competitions with 150 odd AI teams in them but not one competition with 24 AI teams? It just doesn't add up! If you have to reduced something reduce the amount of competitions we can have rather than how many teams we can have in them.

This feature is pretty much pointless right now for seemingly no good reason!

I have 4 friends that I persuaded to buy this thing after playing the previous beta and knowing that we knew we could fill up a league for us all to play in and suddenly this is the slap in the face we get?

8 teams is a joke, it's not even enough for 1 team of each race in the game that you made and we paid for.

I'm fuming right now tbqh.

last edited by Hexley

@Periclitor
Well technically, you still bought all of their stuff, so I guess you are satisfied enough :-P.

I think Cyanide/Focus are really doing a good job at looking what the community wants and what they implement*, so don't give up hopes, yet. I guess they will be quite busy for now with the release of the expansion, but I am confident, that they will look at the community requests soon. I think you are not alone with your wishes and if more people ask for it, they may think of things on how to make it possible. But please: Get a bit more calm/mature in your language

*You see how fast they replied to your request (even if the answer wasn't what you hoped for)

last edited by Arne

I'm sorry but after getting ignored on 2 forums and getting a copypaste answer ala well sorry aboot that we think 8 teams is a great compromise. i think i'm a little bit entitled to have a fit.

I hope you are right and they look into this again but my hopes for now are shattered.

What i really really wanted to do was play a nice quiet privat league with my brother whom i rarely ever see anymore these days and put in enough AI teams to have a nice league going. What i am now confined to again is playing his team 1 maybe 2 times and then stop because there is no progression to be had in friendly matches.

What ever.

last edited by Periclitor

@Arne said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

@Periclitor
Well technically, you still bought all of their stuff, so I guess you are satisfied enough :-P.

I think Cyanide/Focus are really doing a good job at looking what the community wants and what they implement*, so don't give up hopes, yet. I guess they will be quite busy for now with the release of the expansion, but I am confident, that they will look at the community requests soon. I think you are not alone with your wishes and if more people ask for it, they may think of things on how to make it possible. But please: Get a bit more calm/mature in your language

*You see how fast they replied to your request (even if the answer wasn't what you hoped for)

Sorry m8 but if they actually knew what we wanted they would not have even remotely thought that 8 AI teams is acceptable...it's mindbogglingly dumb and short-sighted.

Don't implement a "Feature" if you can't be bothered to make it worthwhile, with an 8 team limit it may as well not be in the game at all.

On top of that the reason for having only 8 AI teams does not make sense seen as we can make 20 competitions in 1 league with 150 odd teams in them separately and that somehow taxes the servers less than 1 competition in 1 league with 24 AI teams?? O.o

Something smells fishy and I'm not talking about the skinks. 😛

last edited by Hexley

@Hexley said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

Sorry m8 but if they actually knew what we wanted they would not have even remotely thought that 8 AI teams is acceptable...it's mindbogglingly dumb and short-sighted.

I don't claim to understand everything they are doing or what their servers are capable of. But if I understood it right, there wasn't any limits on AIs before and then they put energy (programming time) into reducing it and the question here is: Why would they put energy into reducing features, if there wasn't a reason for it?

@Arne said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

@Hexley said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

Sorry m8 but if they actually knew what we wanted they would not have even remotely thought that 8 AI teams is acceptable...it's mindbogglingly dumb and short-sighted.

I don't claim to understand everything they are doing or what their servers are capable of. But if I understood it right, there wasn't any limits on AIs before and then they put energy (programming time) into reducing it and the question here is: Why would they put energy into reducing features, if there wasn't a reason for it?

And my question here is: If there was a reason (Server load apparently) how come I can have 150 odd AI teams total in separate competitions within the same league but not 1 competition with 24 teams total if it's a server issue?

Seems to me that 150+ AI teams would be more load heavy than 24 AI teams no?

@Hexley said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

And my question here is: If there was a reason (Server load apparently) how come I can have 150 odd AI teams total in separate competitions within the same league but not 1 competition with 24 teams total if it's a server issue?

Seems to me that 150+ AI teams would be more load heavy than 24 AI teams no?

... and if you were allowed to make 16 AIs into each competition, you would end up with 300+ AIs. I don't think we are really getting anywhere here. While I personally don't really care about the AIs, I hope that you will get as many of them as you can dream of. But right now, there seems to be the limit and we only have the statement above, which we can either believe or not.

So what to do now? (besides ranting in the forums)
Short-term: Think about how you can work things out within the current system (even if it is not ideal)
Long-term: Ask about the AI later (as I said before: I don't think they will change things within the next days, because they are releasing the expansion now, which usually means a lot of work) and hope to increase the numbers.

last edited by Arne

@Arne Easily fixed, make the AI teams client side for private leagues or reduce the amount of competitions allowed within 1 league by 2/3's and increase the teams per competition to 24.

End result is the same amount of AI teams allowed per league as it is now.

It's really not rocket science...just common sense, which is what makes their current stance on it so confusing and infuriating.

last edited by Hexley

@Hexley said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

@Arne Easily fixed, make the AI teams client side for private leagues

Are you sure it is an easy fix? Theoretically yes, but implementing this practically? I have no idea how the blood bowl engine works and how much time and effort such a change would take

@Hexley said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

or reduce the amount of competitions allowed within 1 league by 2/3's and increase the teams per competition to 24.

End result is the same amount of AI teams allowed per league as it is now.

This is the kind of changes I meant with "long-term" goals: Just wait a bit until they have some more experience/data of how many AI-competitions the people actually create (and things settled down a bit after the release). I think if the numbers are manageable, this would be something they may do

last edited by Arne
Community Manager

A competition with 8 AI teams means a max of 4 simultaneous matches, no matter how many competitions you have.
A single competition with 128 AI however means a max of 64 simultaneous matches, which is far heavier on the server.

This feature has been developed to give an option for multiplayer leagues to replace a missing coach or fill a line-up missing a few coaches. It wasn't created for players who want to play a huge singleplayer league with a friend or two.

We're sorry it's not what you had in mind, and we notice that expanding this feature would interest you a lot. The current focus is on releasing Legendary in the best possible state by chasing and fixing all the issues reported.

The expansion of this feature is now on the community wish list. It doesn't mean it will happen tomorrow, but that it will be considered as an option for potential future content update.

BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

@Hexley said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

reduce the amount of competitions allowed within 1 league by 2/3's

That would have detrimental effects on a number of private leagues.

I'm not saying the issue shouldn't be addressed, but that other consequences need to be considered.

@Arne
"Are you sure it is an easy fix? Theoretically yes, but implementing this practically? I have no idea how the blood bowl engine works and how much time and effort such a change would take"

The solo leagues in the game already do it.

@dode74 said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

@Hexley said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

reduce the amount of competitions allowed within 1 league by 2/3's

That would have detrimental effects on a number of private leagues.

I'm not saying the issue shouldn't be addressed, but that other consequences need to be considered.

Fair point.

Then make mixed AI/Human leagues a separate option with it's own rules just like solo leagues.

@Netheos said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

A competition with 8 AI teams means a max of 4 simultaneous matches, no matter how many competitions you have.
A single competition with 128 AI however means a max of 64 simultaneous matches, which is far heavier on the server.

This feature has been developed to give an option for multiplayer leagues to replace a missing coach or fill a line-up missing a few coaches. It wasn't created for players who want to play a huge singleplayer league with a friend or two.

We're sorry it's not what you had in mind, and we notice that expanding this feature would interest you a lot. The current focus is on releasing Legendary in the best possible state by chasing and fixing all the issues reported.

The expansion of this feature is now on the community wish list. It doesn't mean it will happen tomorrow, but that it will be considered as an option for potential future content update.

That's not what I was sold when I paid for it.

If it was the plan from the start why were we allowed unlimited AI teams in the earlier beta?

last edited by Hexley

@Periclitor @Hexley
So within 19 hours in the official forums you got two official statements and you made it on the community wishlist. Let's be at least a bit fair here: Even if this is not exactly what you wished for, you were still treated very well here :). At least I think, that the community management of Focus is really good.

Community Manager

@Hexley said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

That's not what I was sold when I paid for it.
If it was the plan from the start why were we allowed unlimited AI teams in the earlier beta?

Sorry if there has been a misunderstanding about that.

Although this feature has been given for free to all BB2 owners in the free update. It's not part of the official expansion you paid.

The technical limits of the feature were discovered lately. And the playerbase of the beta is smaller than the full game.

Bait and switch is why.

At least thats what it feels like because we had it the way we wanted it in the first Beta and then they killed the feature.

last edited by Periclitor

@Arne said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

@Periclitor @Hexley
So within 19 hours in the official forums you got two official statements and you made it on the community wishlist. Let's be at least a bit fair here: Even if this is not exactly what you wished for, you were still treated very well here :). At least I think, that the community management of Focus is really good.

A feature that worked perfectly a couple of weeks ago that they removed and then half-jobbed back in so that they couldn't get blamed for false advertising got put on a vague "Wishlist".

I shouldn't have to wish for a feature that was promised to begin with.

Sorry but it just isn't good enough.

However it seems that i'm just going to be offered vague platitudes here so i'll stop wasting my breath.

I've bought every version of BB and every DLC for them by Cyanide so far and I've given every one of them a positive review and been a content ambassador for them...that stops here i'm afraid.

I don't enjoy being bait and switched or lied to, and neither do the people I persuaded to pay for LE on the back of features which have since been removed.

last edited by Hexley

@Netheos said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

@Hexley said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

That's not what I was sold when I paid for it.
If it was the plan from the start why were we allowed unlimited AI teams in the earlier beta?

Sorry if there has been a misunderstanding about that.

Although this feature has been given for free to all BB2 owners in the free update. It's not part of the official expansion you paid.

The technical limits of the feature were discovered lately. And the playerbase of the beta is smaller than the full game.

http://store.steampowered.com/news/externalpost/steam_community_announcements/75835794573567890

Your post not mine. No talk of any Free Update just "get the Legendary give us money and we let you play with AI teams so you can finally play with small amounts of players". But maybe my english is just bad and mixed means get a small number of AI teams because we don't wanna upgrade our server infrastructure and are not willing to let the simulation of you private league run on your own PC like in Singleplayer because we are afraid you will cheat or what ever.

I'm done. See you never.

last edited by Periclitor

@Netheos said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

This feature has been developed to give an option for multiplayer leagues to replace a missing coach or fill a line-up missing a few coaches. It wasn't created for players who want to play a huge singleplayer league with a friend or two.

The only reason I picked up the expansion, was the impression given that we'd finally have proper fully mixed human and AI leagues, that we could play with friends, instead of this incessant obsession with adversarial competitive gameplay in a niche game and for a niche sized playerbase.

If the intention from the beginning were that it was only meant as a substitute for player run competitive leagues, it should have been clearly stated from the very first press release and subsequent promotional material. As the poster above highlights, it weren't and and here we are on release day and the truth is revealed, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Failure in communication or intentionally misleading your costumers, either way you can do better Focus Home Interactive. This was your chance to redeem yourself, but alas you failed your Going For It and dropped the ball just before the endzone. This all feels par for course.

Free feature or not, I've put in a request for a refund for the expansion on Steam, hopefully it goes through.

If calculating AI's moves at Cyanide's servers place too much strain on them, why not allow optional AI League's mode where those AI would be still controlled at client, as in solo matches? Thus allowing for much more AI teams.

Yes, it's sorta opens way to cheat for human player (in any way; let's suppose there is an exploit which makes AI to skip turns), but, after all, it's AI leagues, it's not a serious thing from the start. Those who need more teams would probably agree to take those risks.

AI vs AI matches in this mode could just be calculated in some very simplified way, like auto-resolved battles in some turnbased strategies do. No real simulation of two teams on the pitch, just quick "bashing" of players's stats and skills against each other.

last edited by Mori-Mori

Optionally, that could be an option for AI League's Commissioner to download all pending AI matches to his machine and conduct a proper simulated resolution of them, then upload results.

alt text

They scraped the Feature so fast they could not even keep up with their UI department.

last edited by Periclitor

@Aexrael said in 8 AI Teams Limit in Competitions [Devs this is for you]:

If the intention from the beginning were that it was only meant as a substitute for player run competitive leagues, it should have been clearly stated from the very first press release and subsequent promotional material. As the poster above highlights, it weren't and and here we are on release day and the truth is revealed, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Read the posts of Netheos again, I think the whole story was like this:

They implemented the AI-feature -> They figured out in the open beta, that their way of implementation used up too many server resources -> they didn't had enough time to easily fix the computational issues -> they decided to restrict the number of AIs to 8

I guess they are as unhappy as you are with that solution and I understand why you are annoyed by it, but I guess they can't change it for now, even if they wanted to

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