@sn1percat all fair points that I can't outright disagree with and with my limited availability I haven't noticed shortcomings/essential skills for other factions. I know there are always the most effective builds in games such as this but it feels different with Necrons because without Pyrmidal things can get hairy extremely quickly for them and other options just don't work at all without it.
I say that Scarabs is a must have because it is by far the easiest to use and most versatile. Lightning Link does a ton more damage and is a great skill but, short of using it on a single big ship, it's fairly difficult to position to use the skill effectively. Thunderbolt is decent, as you said, but Scarabs is just plain better when there's more than one ship in range.
I still can't help but feel that a straight reduction in CD for ID would be a bigger buff than my suggestion but it is the easier method of balance and the most likely change to happen given the history of the devs. Thanks for the thoughts!
@sn1percat You do admit, though, that some of the skills are "essential" to be competitive at all. I'm curious about your thoughts in regards to stacking ID as I agree with just about everything in your assessment but still think that Necrons could use some work for the simple fact that Pyramidal and Scarabs are "must-have". That's also why I suggested the change I did so that in the future we don't see DPS or Speed buffs that result in Necrons being one of the 2-3 optimal builds.
So, what's your thoughts on ID charge stacking?
AdMech feel very much like a support fleet rather than a main fleet. They don't really have any Cruisers that work well up close and will usually get burned down quick or lose crew so the name of the game is staying at range. This is easy to do against some factions but not so much against others so they will usually work well for the beginning of an encounter but fall apart very quickly if you aren't able to wipe out the enemy quickly.
In 2v2s I love the AdMech(so long as my teammate has something that can keep the enemy busy) and feel they are a great faction but in 1v1s they only perform well against 2-3 other factions. The Nova spam build is what I have used mostly because it can put a lot of damage on an enemy quickly or corral them to a location I want them but I can see how the Escort fleet can also be effective. Still, if you're forced to build around lots of Escorts I feel that there is a failing somewhere.
You don t need this kind of charge mechanic. ALmost all factions have 2 different special manouevres, Necron could use the same.
1 long range TP with high CD, 1 short range reposition with low CD
I don't know if I like this idea with the current Necron build though. This would make them much more powerful to have 2 different maneuvers each with a separate CD, would be much easier to stagger them effectively. With 1 stackable maneuver you can easily use up your "dodge" which prevents you from being able to escape. It becomes an either or. If you give 2 different CDs there would have to be several other changes to how the Necrons currently work.
@aram_thehead currently the Necron can't disengage. That one teleport doesn't get you far enough away due to how slow the ships are so you never actually get to disengage. Stacking the jump(and tweaking distance/CD) gives slightly more distance which could lead to different builds rather than requiring specific builds to be effective. A player could use it for dodge and take abilities that help them put out more DPS, sure. They could also take "silent" builds that allow them to disengage and vanish from their opponent's radar.
Currently there is only 1 way to build Necrons effectively, from what I have experienced and heard from others, which leads to much of the feeling that they are not a good faction. Even that one method is less effective than builds you can create with other factions. I personally tried to think of a way to allow the other strengths of the Necrons to be more effective but you are right that players could also use it for dodging with tankier fleet builds.
@alandauron I like this idea of a teleport with charges! 3 charges of teleport would allow necrons to dodge, but if the player uses all of the charges very quickly, he will still be punished by abilities, which is good. One thing though: If each of these 3 charges allowed necrons to teleport to the same distance that they can teleport to now (which is 9k), then necrons could potentially instantly travel 27k. In the lore it would be ok, but balance-wise it would not in my opinion. They still need a little bit more mobility, so I'd say that each of these charges should allow something like a 4k teleport.
I would agree that if the stack is increased to 3 that some other balancing would be needed that's why I stated 2-3 depending on other changes that might happen over the course of balancing. Currently 2, at the distance they can teleport, would be a great way to escape after doing some damage. There could even be higher/lower stacks on different types of ships, each with varying distance.
Now, Necrons in lore would just cruise in and destroy everything around them but we've acknowledged we can't use Necrons from lore already. Based off their current setup they look more like a hit and run/repair style faction yet they have no way to escape in order for their hull repair to have any real advantage, especially when shields can recharge and provide much needed relief at a vital point.
My suggestion for stacking charges is to use them for a quick escape, not necessarily for dodging abilities, so you would want to also increase the CD length by 15+ seconds to keep Necron players from being able to effectively use it for dodging. Sure you still could, but then you might not be able to disengage from a heavy barrage of broadsides because your next charge would be further away.
What I would like to see to start with:
Cairn: 2 charges; 7.5k distance; increased CD by 30 secs
Scythe: 2 charges; 7.5k distance; increased CD by 15 secs
LCs: 3 charges; 6k distance; increased CD by 30 secs
Escorts: 2 charges; 9k distance; increased CD by 30 secs
This, I feel, would be a good place to start with and then could be balanced moving forward. Lore put aside completely of course, this would allow the big guy(Cairn) to disengage if it looks as if the fight is not going to go well(crew is disappearing) but with the smaller teleport distance and longer CD other factions that are faster can still catch up fast enough to keep the Cairn engaged. Scythe would be slightly harder to keep up with but it still wouldn't be effective at dodging. LCs would be more useful for dodging charges and abilities for the first part of a fight but if they aren't careful would quickly run out of charges, yet with 3 charges they could also disengage even with the shorter distance. Escorts would maintain the role of scouts and be able to GTFO quickly if they find themselves in a bad spot but would take longer to regain charges.
Anyway, this is all just wishful thinking but maybe the devs will see this and consider it. I think making the ID stack and playing with CD and distance would ultimately fix the Necrons completely as the rest of their build would still be effective with this change/tweak without making them even more powerful with higher DPS, etc.
What about a slight increase in the CD for Inertialess Drive but allow it to stack to 2-3 charges that can be used back to back?
A CD decrease might make them much more powerful but once you've used the stacked charges and are in combat, having the stacked charges won't increase their effectiveness. It would simply allow an escape to make use of the Necron hull repair.
I will say that I definitely don't want to see them add a random measure of "Could be x mode or y mode each match" but it would be nice to have a weekly mode. That way the player is able to properly loadout the fleet for the game mode and we don't see Cap and Hold all the time.
Week 1: Cap and Hold
Week 2: Clash in the middle(one point in the middle)
Week 3: Cruiser Clash
Using the Capture points in different ways they could vary up the style and changing the mode weekly would prevent it from being excessively repetitive.
you could agument it by instead of full reveal it just show the radar blips
Then nothing is resolved cause they can still outrun you and will now know where all your ships are, if it's to be made "fair" and doesn't just reveal the location of kitey faction ships.
there are very few people who are happy with the take and hold mode only issue they may like it as a mode but they want to see more variety then just the same thing over and over and that would apply to cruiser clash as well. but as it stands now you got a large group of people that absolutely hate it and thats not good any way you look at it.
If you're going off the forums, sure a large portion of that group(or at least a vocal one) is upset. Heck I'm a bit upset that this is what they went with, but I understand why. With all things considered Cap and Hold ONLY is better than Cruiser Clash ONLY. They were likely trying to make all matches the same because that allows the players to build their fleets around knowing that is what they are going into. Adding in Cruiser Clash as a random chance wouldn't make people more satisfied it would make them more frustrated. If they got the game mode that their fleet goes best with they'd be happy but not so much when they got the other game mode.
I would say try and present/sell the idea of them having a shrinking map Cruiser Clash mode as a Skirmish option or some such so that players can test it out and then if it becomes a popular mode maybe we can convince them to do a community vote on which one is more liked. Maybe even a month period where the game mode for Ranked is set to Shrinking Cruiser Clash, I like the idea maybe others will also.
@imptastic and once again, you still get a clash in Cap and Hold. Only straight up Cruiser Clash has the potential to not get any clash because, as in the first, the optimal strategy for winning will become avoidance.
Revealing after X time: This would help with the issue of kiting but would also destroy the ability of those kite heavy factions to be competitive since they rely on staying out of gun range. They wouldn't be able to put on enough damage fast enough to burn down the enemy enough to beat the reveal clock. Not unless it's an extremely long clock which would change nothing in the meta. At best you replace one issue with another one.
Reducing Map Area over time: I think this would be a logical method to prevent kiting forever while still maintaining the competitiveness of the factions that are better at it. I would be interested to test this out in a beta version if the devs wanted to try it. Since it's not actually a thing though, Cap and Hold is still a better option over Cruiser Clash both in balance and a fun factor.
Valarak: If it's like you say, that he enjoys big fights, then he would absolutely hate going up against Eldar as anything but Eldar(maybe Chaos) because then he just wouldn't get to have that big fight. I don't watch him though so I couldn't say either, like your thoughts this is just my opinion.