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posted in Insurgency: Sandstorm Pre-Order Beta - General Feedback read more

@zucchini said in We want the one hit kills.:

It's like CS losing recoil patterns, or the guns getting scopes, it wouldn't be CS anymore.

That's very extreme and while you might get the impression a low TTK is the same extreme..i don't think so. But that's something we won't agree on, ever. It's a matter of taste. For me a more equivalent comparison would be the removal of the extremes wallbangs 1.6 offers compared to CS:GO.

SS is moving forward in other ways - vehicles, the ability for better sound and visuals, new bigger maps, more guns, new models etc....

...tbh except for new models and better visuals i don't agree with any of those "improvements". What caught my interesting for ins2 years ago was the small scale maps in combination with the less arcady gameplay (compared to cs). I looked for a game like that after playing BF3 and getting tired of the large maps. The more i play sandstorm, the more i dislike this large clusterfuck maps. Vehicles are uninteresting for me as well.

and as much fun as insurgency2 is, you get sick of playing casual with 31 other noobs, in fact it is extremly infurating.

Yes, so is Sandstorm. That's the thing. It's such a boring and frustrating game at the same time, because of the vastly different skill levels playing the same match. It's borderline retarded. With a proper matchmaking system, where you get matched with people of similar skill, this would be a much much much better experience.... but there we go again: you need a ton of players for this to happen. If SS can pull it off with a low(er) TTK, I'm fine with being proven wrong. I don't see it. Recovering from that will be even harder so trying to "fix" it right from the start is a way more reasonable approach. You can't balance a game based on gameplay where the skill delta is wider than Juice' anus in the last season of sons of anarchy. That simply doesn't work.

posted in Insurgency: Sandstorm Pre-Order Beta - General Feedback read more

@zucchini said in We want the one hit kills.:

@benz you're not wrong imo. But Insurgency2 was different, and I and other people liked the difference. Maybe I liked that I could be lazy and aim center mass rather than head, but then I was never lazy, I had good aim - its gone potato now because of the laggy mouse movement thanks to fake 70fps, but I have achieved some crazy BS in my time, sicc fliccs ect

Well... that's the thing though. Ins:s is a successor. Not Ins2. I like CS 1.6 WAY more than CS:GO... i have to live with the fact that CS:GO is inferior to me compared to 1.6, since apparently CS:GO is doing freaking good. I don't actively play CS:GO anymore. This might be sad for me, but I'm not the only person on the planet.. and no offense: but the 2.5k peak players Ins2 got aren't either. Sandstorm needs to be better than Ins2, if this wants to be a truly competitive game.

They want to have a matchmaking system... do you realize how many players Sandstorm actually needs so this matchmaking system would actually work?! Hint: more than 2.5k.

Do you realize what happens if Sandstorm doesn't get more players than Ins2? It'll be dead. Rather sooner than later. Competitive games should be able to survive for more than 3 years. You can't do that with low player numbers. Not in a team game. Where do you go then? Insurgency: IceFight? If you need to create a successor every few years...it's probably not a good game to begin with. It's good enough to live from it and make cash, but not good enough to make it actually relevant.

@benz said in We want the one hit kills.:
thank god you agree insurgency really isn't and wasn't a team game, you did things for the team, but you rarely work with them because the noobs are more likely to get you killed than help honestly. solo is far more lethal and effective than with 2 other nerds.

That might be good for public games, but not for a competitive shooter. On the hard opposite you have games like NS2, where you can't have an impact solo. That's not what i want either. CS...seems to be hitting the ground. Obviously. Doesn't mean I want SS to be a CS clone either. Simply means that you should look at what works and adopt it for Sandstorm.

There are reasons for why millions of people own but don't play it.
*shitty 2002 visuals

No. People play games with shit graphics all the time.

*The $1 sale noobs that were literally useless

But you just wrote above: "really isn't and wasn't a team game". Why do you care about the noobs now? That's contradicting. Also: you should ask yourself why, despite so many people owning Ins2 cuz of sales and the free weekend sutff .... the player numbers didn't even rise the slightest. Like..the game has literally 0% player retention. That's a bad sign.

*steep learning curve

No, people play games with way steeper learning curves. It's the "arena fps" excuse. "our genre is so hard, no one plays it". No...just no.

*and insurgency wasn't a lot of peoples cup of tea

That's with every game. True.

I just liked old insurgency and I don't want its core to die in the sequel, low TTK has its place, I and other people have been dealing with shitty source physics and visuals for years! please

Yeah... i understand that you want stuff you enjoy. But like...be real. If Sandstorm wants to be better than Ins2, it has to be better. Quite easy. If the result is something you don't enjoy...i'm sorry, but that's life. Go on. Find a different game. (that's what i'm doing atm btw..i've moved on from CSGO to find a game i can enjoy more...). I know that's hard to accept since i've been in that position as well, when CSGO was developed. But retrospectively... my gaming life didn't get worse, just because CS:GO wasn't 1.6 HD. On the opposite: i learned new things, different things, looked for other games and found some i enjoy as well... in short: my experience got a good boost.

If you constantly try to get what you are used to....and humans like to stay in their comfort zones... you won't evolve. You stagnate.

Sandstorm can't afford stagnation.

posted in Insurgency: Sandstorm Pre-Order Beta - General Feedback read more

@zucchini said in We want the one hit kills.:

@MarksmanMax, It's hard to show "solid facts" that TTK is better, but anybody that says that "TTK doesn't have an effect on gameplay" has no eye's XD.

If anybody would think TTK has no effect on gameplay, there won't be a discussion in the first place. It's about whether this effect is good or not.

It made being smart and creative important and I loved it.

This one really bugs me. Like, that's not exclusive to Insurgency at all. What people fail to understand when saying this is: at a top level players are so close in their mechanical skills (movement, aiming...), that what decides about win or lose is exactly what you want: playing smart and creative. The skill-gap in aiming is so narrow, it barely has an impact! Unless you really miss your shots...and you should get punished for it in a competitive game.

Ofc flattening the gameplay makes other things more important. Like... no one is even fighting that. If you take shooting completely out of the equation... obv. tactics are more important, because it's the only aspect left. That doesn't automatically make it a better game. On the contrary: you just made your game flat. Congratz. You have a flat game. A game that tries to be competitive. Who wants to play a flat, competitive game? Apparently no one, as proven by the low player numbers of Ins2. Sorry if this is insulting to you, but numbers don't lie.

Also: the lower the skill, the less dominant this is. In low skilled games you can have good aim and carry based on that. You can also have good game sense and carry based on that. It allows different playstyles for lower skilled games. Quite logical. If there are more areas to improve on in a game, there are obv. more ways to play it effectively. That's good. That's not a bad thing. That's what makes people play games. Expressiveness in playstyles. Not being forced into a specific playstyles, just because the game doesn't allow for more. It's ridiculous to even think about it if you want to make a successful game. Just because you enjoy that playstyle, doesn't mean it's good to limit the game to it. Look at any successful multiplayer game ever. They all allow players to express themselves in their playstyle. Why would you wanna limit that?!

You can go berserk in csgo if you want, or you can play smart and tactical if you want. Both can lead to a win, as long as you play good. Limiting gameplay choices is a death sentence. Is that what you want?

And dare I say it, but it made the solo player fight as a solo player for their team and help their team in a solo way, because grouping up made you easy to see and just as easy to kill as a single person, so a different type of teamwork, @Slazenger agrees with me.

This is ridiculous. You can extrapolate this to every degree you want in every game and call it "teamplay". That's not an argument at all. Not to mention this is once again not exclusive to Insurgency. People play like that in CS all the time. You always have that one special lurker. It's not a "different type of teamwork".... it's a way to win a game if you can't rely on your team. That's it. Clear, simple and without trying to make it sound noble. (btw: that's how i play sandstorm... usually top fragging and leading the scoreboard...a 61% winrate doesn't come from teamplay with all the noobs playing this game atm, so apparently playing solo effectively is way more than possible already)

as I said you have to try it to understand it so please be open-minded and not just think how stupid I'm being and try to nitpick, please try and understand what we are saying.

This goes both ways..... just saying.

and if the thread keeps going how it has been going eg: somebody trys explain their view

People are free to explain their view. But their view is their view. If views get constantly disproven and certain people still argue with that "view" it's a big circle and leads nowhere. That's not being "open minded". That's being dense. (inb4 someone saying "whoaaaa...did you just call people dense?!" WOAAAAA. MODS")

I'd express my view saying "the world is flat" and people will disprove me. If I afterwards still say "the world is flat" I'm a retard... and if I decline proof and logic without valid reasons it makes me an even bigger retard.

The problem you clearly see in this thread and every other TTK thread is following:

  1. someone expresses his view
  2. he gets challanged on this view
  3. he tries to comeback
  4. gets challenged again
  5. everything becomes a shitshow, because either a) it starts going cycles or b) the person simply refutes everything without any real argument

(side note: you having an apparently personal relationship with slaz isn't helping this discussion either...like... "oh no...2 friends stand in for each other"...bummer)

And you know why? Because people are passionate about the game and their view. They can't let their feelings out of this. They like f.e. a low TTK and they have to defend it and make up stuff just so it sounds "logical" in their own brain in order to justify their beliefs. That's normal human behavior. The important stuff is to be able to identify this behavior and work around it yourself. People can't do that in here. This has become a discussion about feelings and personal impressions, rather than gameplay and what's important for a good, successful, competitive shooter.

Yeah, that's that.

posted in Insurgency: Sandstorm Pre-Order Beta - General Feedback read more

When I first started playing ss I always used compensator and foregrip. Nowadays I don't and my stats didn't get worse. Actually the points spent on utility instead are way more worth it.

After reading the mp7 thread I started playing it... Never played it before. That weapon is nuts. Dunno why people bash it. Use it accordingly and it's a very good weapon. I only use it with a holo, that's it. No compensator, foregrip or whatever. It's short af and extremely deadly. Ofc trying to spray down people long range won't get you far. Although I have to say that the recoil is very low, even while standing.

posted in Insurgency: Sandstorm Pre-Order Beta - General Feedback read more

@tooth-decay so calling someone's logic flawed is on the same level as calling someone idiotic? Nice.

By that logic we shouldn't ever argue on this forum, since that implies disagreement. Very insulting.

posted in Insurgency: Sandstorm Pre-Order Beta - General Feedback read more

@iyagovos said in We want the one hit kills.:

Both, telling someone they have two brain cells in an insult. It won't be discussed further.

I wrote

because everyone with 2 braincells can see how flawed your logic is.

Dunno how you can spin this into "you only have 2 braincells". Yeah... if you don't want stuff to be discussed publicly, maybe don't write it in public then. Otherwise "censorship" might be the correct word to describe this....

posted in Insurgency: Sandstorm Pre-Order Beta - General Feedback read more

@iyagovos said in We want the one hit kills.:

@benz Take this as another warning to stop insulting players in these forums and on the Discord. It's not welcome here.

I haven't insulted anyone. If I write "I like white snow" and someone reads "omg he hates my race!".... yeah. I'm not responsible for people trying to find something they can feel offended about.

Also: i haven't been warned on the forum yet. So there's that.

posted in Insurgency: Sandstorm Pre-Order Beta - General Feedback read more

@zucchini said in Due to the low playerbase in Oceania and the poor matchmaking system, I am now playing games in half full servers.:

@tuliottr said in Due to the low playerbase in Oceania and the poor matchmaking system, I am now playing games in half full servers.:

still, compared to 2k at the start of the beta, thats still a huge drop

all the long time players leaving 😉

No update for 3 weeks and people stop playing.... What a mystery... Must be the ttk. Kappa.

posted in Insurgency: Sandstorm Pre-Order Beta - Technical Feedback read more

@burgrat wouldn't you be the correct person to ask for videos, since you are the one experiencing it?

Hitreg seems pretty fine to me since the update some time ago.


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