I always meant to try this but didn't get around to it: can you place an IED on a car? If so, could player 1 plant an IED on a car, player 2 drives it into the spawn of the other team, and tells player 1 when to detonate it? Wouldn't that make cars the ultimate troll-weapon?
I wanted (1) with some quality of life improvements like loadout preset save slots, and I'm quite unhappy with how Sandstorm turned out gameplay-wise.
Also "realistic" is possibly the worst word to describe anything games-related. 9/10 time the better term to use is "immersive".
The devs pretty much confirmed yesterday on stream they are "happy" with the current TTK.
Thanks for the info...
I am very sad to hear this. It means I will likely refund the game at the end of beta. This is not the gameplay that I signed up for. I'm having much more fun with the old INS2 right now, so if Sandstorm stays as it is in regards to TTK, it's not the right game for me.
Hope at least all you (ex)Battlefield players enjoy the game!
can't you just shoot 2 rpgs behind the cover and still kill it with splash damage from the same distance you could with a direct hit before?
Imho the only thing that could suite a broad playerbase are bots that are tweakable on more than one axis. E.g. inaccurate and slow but very smart bots to teach noobs to cover their flanks and gain some situational awareness, accurate aggressive bots that rush to give pros some aiming practice, or all cranked to max for the top 1% to still have a suitable challenge. Loadouts of the bots (armor etc.) should also be tweakable for a sort of damage scaling.
I could imagine interesting gameplay coming from a solo/duo objective based deathmatch mode where every player or duo team gets assigned objectives that they need to go to one after the other, and all the other players are like moving obstacles. The game could assign new objectives to people to basicly guide them so that their paths intentionally cross. A while ago I suggested an "experimental branch" for matchmaking where new ideas or balancing changes can be A/B tested. I think something like this could be worth a test. Might be fun, might be horrible, only one way to find out.
Don't worry about objective focused modes going away entirely, that will never happen in Insurgency. I wouldn't want that either.
Yeah, the teamwork isn't even close to my biggest concern, it's just one of the many things that I see that INS2 does better imho.
I've just played another round INS2 with a friend and it blows Sandstorm out of the water in so many ways, it's crazy. Granted, doors are better in Sandstorm (not just the various mechanics, just running through them without getting stuck is already easier than in INS2), and the loadout menu is better with its presets, but in terms of fun and excitement INS2 is still leaps and bounds ahead. Gamedesign is hard, you can't take something like that and "just make it better", every tiny change can break it. I think they changed too much at once, trusting that it'd work, without confirming that it does. Either that or they have such a vastly different vision for Sandstorm that it will never be my cup of tea. We'll go back to INS2 and take another look at Sandstorm with each patch to see how it's changing. But I'll be honest, if till release this doesn't look like it's getting turned around big time, then I'll probably refund it because otherwise I'd only forever be annoyed by the game for abandoning its old strengths. If the devs have a different vision for it, then fair enough, their choice. I don't want anything so different, because INS2 is the only multiplayer shooter that I can enjoy and it pretty much ruined all the other shooters for me. I hope the new one will sell well either way and I still have nothing but love for NWI, but Sandstorm (so far) is not living up to the expectations that I had as a huge fan of INS2. And it doesn't really feel like those are issues cause by its rough beta state, it feels more like they have changed their design goals and I'm no longer on board with the new ones.
I think the right place for deathmatch in Sandstorm would be the same place that aim maps have in CS:GO - perfectly reasonable way to train your aiming skills, but not "part of the official main game". I'd try it out, could be fun.
Also I would like to see some sort of squad system in this game like there was in insurgency. Perhaps every squad would have a squad leader who's job it is to call in reinforcements, i.e. respawn his squad. This would give a sense of unity to the squads as they always respawn together and gives the players the power to decide how their waves are spent instead of it being entirely up to the game.
That way you would put even more of the fun of the whole squad into the hands of one person that may be totally unqualified to handle it, just like commanders and observers get yelled at all the time, that person too would get yelled at all the time. If they do their job poorly the whole squad suffers, and even if they do it right there's always someone who disagrees. I think that's the wrong way to go about it. And I doubt the old squad divisions are coming back because it doesn't fit well with the new class selection UI.
What I wouldn't mind is different spawn locations and the dead teammates get to vote on where to spawn next during their spectator time. Maybe that would get them to talk to each other to get some consensus for what strategy to use? And it would make it less predictable for when and where waves appear in regards to spawn camping and fuel truck attacks. Maybe there could be a differentiation between "victory objectives" and "spawn objectives" that grant spawns in forward locations but don't count towards the objectves that win the match? So it would be a tactical choice whether to go after a forward spawn point at the cost of manpower for capturing or holding the existing objectives.
Good points. Imho one of the most fun (2 player) coop modes I've seen so far was the wave based survival mode in COD:MW3 because you moved around more based on your own strategy instead of objective markers. It felt like there was more agency and meaning in where you set up defenses, how you kite enemies through the area etc.. Now I don't say "clone this" because it wouldn't work, I'm saying look at what was fun there and see how Sandstorms Coop could be made more fun. I too feel it gets boring too quickly and usually doesn't create any kind of dynamic battle where the environment really matters. Feels very "artificial" for lack of a better word.
Hi @webbie and thanks for replying! Good to see even someone who likes the game can agree on some of what I wrote.
Personally I dont think its an issue in the RPG more about placement of the fuel trucks themselves. In real life you wouldn't park your assets in open spaces much less undefended.
Agreed. The RPG was more an example of how one decision has a couple of knock on effects that make two entirely different things feel worse.
The team that communicates best always wins, its a fact. Insurgency has really gone out of the box here and made maps with many corners and many angles. The point to this is you cant just go and learn the maps and look like your a god because it aint gonna work.
The problem that I see with that is that INS2 never had strong teamplay on EU servers and Sandstorm doesn't do nearly enough to funnel people towards teamplay. I have no recommendations to fix it either, I'm often a lone roamer myself. Maybe some kind of improved tagging/callout system could help that awards points for informing your teammates and awards you a sizable chunk of the kill score if a teammate kills your marked target (maybe 100% even to maximally incentivize because a good callout is usually more worth than a missed shot?)?
I just played a round of INS2 skirmish on Panj. I chose Panj because I hate it, didn't want to skew the test by picking my favorite map. Shortly after I joined my team lost the second round in a row - 0:2. The next round I got teamkilled very intentionally (dude fired half a mag at me at close range shortly after round start, absolutely no way that was an accident), but I managed to blow the enemies cache and we won - 1:2. The team felt like there is a chance for a comeback and some people even used the chat to try and coordinate what objectives to take. I'm not sure I have ever seen that happen in Sandstorm. I'm sure it did happen but the chat window is kind of hard to read with the much smaller font and top corner placement and I often overlook that messages are even written there. We managed to win that round as well - 2:2. I got sniped a TON, my K/D ratio at the end of the round was faaar below 1, but I never felt as long out of action as I do in Sandstorm. You respawn quickly, and the action starts the moment you step out the door of the spawn area. I felt much more compelled to use smokes, crawl along in the trenches, won a couple of engagements, lost a couple of engagements, but I never raged at the game because it all felt fair and unambiguous. When I died from a sniper it means I have gambled and lost or not used enough smoke. When I die from an enemy that I could see, it means they were faster than me, fair enough. When I had someone in my sights I could easily drop them. Never did that feel like the game is getting in the way and I need to call bullshit on what just happened, which is a frequent occurance in Sandstorm. In the end we won 3:2 rounds, on a map that I absolutely hate, with a terrible K/D that usually bothers me a lot, but I had so much more fun than in a Sandstorm skirmish, it's a night and day difference. In INS2 I feel like everything that I do matters more. People are more inclined to go for objectives, because they are not a 2 minute hike away and you can just rather quickly run over from where you are. I believe the higher round count (best of 5) combined with not switching sides (assuming they'd be more balanced than they are right now in Sandstorm) allows everybody in the game to get more invested. A comeback is always possible, no unsatisfying ties, no getting confused whom to shoot because it switches every round (always takes me a moment to get used to whom I need to shoot, I think the frequent switches are a very bad choice, and also masks on maps which side statistically has an advantage), people get to know each other a tiny bit more, even if just by observing whom they can count on going for objectives (even better when you stay on one server and play a few rounds with the same people), and there is a much greater sense of a "shared victory/loss". I'm overall so much more engaged in INS2, there has to be something wrong with Sandstorm in the way it sets up the gameplay/teamplay environment...
I used, and use, to play a lot to Red Orchestra (and now to Rising Storm 2), where the maps’ size and tools like artillery support actually make sense, because of the concept of “simulating” battlefields between 32 players teams, the players being more meat than soldiers. Generally, I played RO/RS2 when I felt like being involved in a battle, and Insurgency when I felt like being involved in short skirmishes, with quickier action.
I wouldn't be surprised if they really wanted to get 32 vs 32 matches going in Sandstorm and laid out the maps to make that at least theoretically possible, but couldn't make it work for one reason or another, but still kept the huge maps. I think that was a mistake. The overall density of people and action on Panj (which I would still consider a big map and which I don't like at all) felt at least twice as dense compared to Sandstorm. It seems to me that about 50/50 I'm alone on an objective in Sandstorm vs having teammates present, and in INS2 most of the time you have other teammates on the same objective too. And the long walk routes in Sandstorm play their part in it I'm sure. If I see an objective being taken that is 200 m away, I know there is no way for me to get there in time, so why bother at all? Maybe the capture timers need to be increased?
I believe there is something wrong with how sounds are loaded that causes very noticable performance issues. They probably know, since as far as I remember some of the past patch notes mentioned turning some audio fx off. But good thing to have reports like yours to confirm it still is an issue.
I have 40 hours in Sandstorm now, and 639 hours INS:2. After I play Sandstorm I'm usually in a bad mood and I'm starting to wonder if the game shot itself in the knee and is - based on the available maps and mechanics - "frustrating by design" now? I only play skirmish currently and I always tried to blow up caches and had a lot of fun with that in the old game. The lanes in the old maps were designed so that you usually had to push through a lot of enemies till you got to the cache. There was often some kind of defense for it, even if the team didn't have any dedicated people to defend it. Now on some maps you can run to the fuel truck without even meeting anyone most of the time, because the maps are so huge. Flanking used to be a thrilling high risk move, and now it's much less interesting because the teams are so spread out over the maps. And on crossing, the damn trucks are placed in plain sight just waiting for a single RPG shot from next to C to take it out. That isn't fun, a moment of interesting challenge was removed and replaced with something that feels like pure cheesing.
The RPGs used to be high-risk-high-reward weapons that are inaccurate as fuck (I often couldn't even reliably fire them through a doorway or window at a distance), but if they hit, they cleared the fucking room like a boss. Now that we have all that helicopter crap they need to be laser-precise to give a fair chance of hitting the damn things and because they are so precise they also are perfect for blowing up trucks (boooring) and got nerfed hard against infantry. Another high-risk-high reward strategy becomes less interesting.
Then all the fire-support stuff. These are fun for 1 person at most, and even if I was the commander I'd feel bad calling in "easy kill support" because there is no challenge and no reason to feel good about yourself for using it. The team that caps the empty objective will feel bored because there's not much to shoot left, and all the people that died by the fire support will be super pissed too. For a rifle kill at least one player gets to have some fun at the expense of someone else being pissed off. I feel like the "net fun to be had in the game" was severely reduced. I'd limit them to smoke artillery only. The only thing the other stuff adds to the game are explosions to be shown in trailers and I feel like that was the main reason to add them in the first place...
I'm guessing microtransactions were mandated by the publisher, now all that cosmetic shit won't go anywhere ever, and the new meta is conceiling yourself in the environment buy using stuff that camouflages you, as if the lighting and cluttered visuals in the game weren't making it hard enough to spot people already. I have been shot numerous times by people that I have looked straight at and decided "that's some piece of rubble and belongs to the map" and boom, a muzzleflash appears and I'm dead. I'm using some kind of desert camo too and my K/D as security on the stats screen is much better than the one for playing Insurgents. And that's despite me always having preferred the AKM as a weapon in INS2...
The maps feel like zero effort has been put into blocking off points that are overpowered exploits for camping in super hard to see spots.
Overall the maps all feel way too "open and hard to conceptualize". It's mostly a clusterfuck of different buildings, often separated by too wide and open areas that invite the conceal-and-camp strategy. I miss the chokepoints that concentrated action. I feel like the percentage of duels compared to group engagements has been shifted a lot towards more 1v1 engagements happening. And because everything is so far apart it's soooo boring to run anywhere. Compared to the old game I feel like I'm spending much more time doing boring stuff and getting shot from behind, compared to being right in the action and winning/losing engagements. When you get shot from behind, it wasn't even a fight from your perspective. In the old game most of the time when I got shot I thought "ok, that guy was quicker or better", because the visuals were clearer and there were much clearer ways from where enemies could come (think of e.g. Ministry), here I feel like the map design is fucking you left and right...
Regarding aim, I can't put my finger on the reasons but it feels much harder to aim to me. Not the recoil, just aiming that first shot. I have mouse smoothing off, vsync off, fps usually higher than my monitor can handle, still feels like there is some kind of lag in the mouse movement. Does anyone else feel that way? The pro players maybe? I'm making so many hipfire kills like in almost no other FPS, something about that feels wrong. Overall shooting feels less satisfying to me in Sandstorm than in INS2.
My bottom-line thought for Sandstorm is "where has all the fun gone?". Because even if I have a good round with high KD, most kills, most objectives and top of the scoreboard, I feel like I've had less fun than in some INS2 matches that I lost.
I like the doors though... the doors are fun!
Look, if you love the game, more power to you! I wish I'd be happy with this game more than you can imagine, because all the other multiplayer shooters are unappealing to me. But right now the game feels so fundamentally flawed to me in ways that I don't expect to ever get fixed, because they are core design choices that you maybe can't even undo in a matter of a few months.
What I would like to hear is the point of view of someone who loved INS2 and thinks they are having even more fun in Sandstorm, and explain to me why exactly - what do you find more fun in Sandstorm? I'm sure there is someone, riiight? I feel like I don't "get" this game if you know what I mean, and it is frustrating.
I plan to play some more of the old INS2 till the next Sandstorm patch hits, to make sure I'm not just wearing rose-tinted-nostalgia-goggles in regards to INS2, but I doubt it. I would never play over 600 hours of a game that I don't absolutely love and I just don't see myself playing anywhere close to that amount of Sandstorm.
(if possible no TTK discussion please, I've left it out of my list because it has been done to death)
Funny but i dont remember being shotgun sniped across the maps in Source very often, maybe its cos i only played for 800 hours or so
I think shotgun was way weaker than it is now, and basically every other weapon was way stronger than it is now. I don't think I've ever survived a shot by a shotgun, while I regularly survive one or two hits from assault rifles. It feels ridiculously unbalanced to me at the moment. I'd say shotgun needs a supply cost increase and a range nerf because one hit kill AND being easier to hit something with it is a weird combination. I once even got two kills with one blast from the shotgun, I wish all guns were this powerful (like they used to).
You mean faster loading time right?
D'oh! Of course! I edited my post. Not quite awake yet it seems. Need more coffee...
I've seen various reports of behavior that may or may not be similar but no official acknowledgment, so sorry if the actual bug is redundant.
Xeon 1231 processor, GTX 1070ti video card, 16GB ram, SSD, latest Nvidia drivers and fully updated windows 10 64 bit.
Within 5 seconds after loading my rifle shortly after entering a match, Sandstorm crashes and spits out a memory related error, saying that there isn't enough room for textures...which doesn't make sense considering that no other games have a problem and my specs comfortably exceed minimum. Doesn't seem like this error is sensitive to video settings, I've tried several combos. Is there a memory leak or something? I've submitted a couple of auto-generated reports but I figured I'd also post here to. Thanks!
Not sure what exactly it is called but there should be an option for texture memory size since the latest update. Try lowering that. I have it on 5gig with a gtx 1060, maybe try 3 or less? It's weird though because I assume your card has more memory than mine. Can you maybe keep the task manager running and track/check how much RAM Insurgency Sandstorm is consuming?
Fair point for not making wait times excessive (there already is a 15 second timer after another waiting phase in pvp, but you might be loading so slowly that you never see it).
I have the problem too that I often don't spawn in the first wave with the others, super annoying. I think a bigger spawning window at round start is a good temporary solution. But what I would really prefer is to see faster loading times!
If some of the data can be compressed in a quicker to load but less size efficient way, I'm all for that. If there are computations being made that could be cached at the expense of some additional wasted space, I'm for that too.
Could this maybe have to do with the setting to load shaders at map load time? I have that enabled because I know other games where they cause excessive stuttering the first time they are loaded.
I don't see it in the known issues list, so I'm reporting it: in several hours of playing Sandstorm with a friend I experienced this once and he did several times: there are rare situations where you pull the trigger and your gun won't shoot. We both have over 500 hours in INS2, I can 100% guarantuee that none of these situations where due to being out of ammo or having made an incomplete reload cycle that leaves the gun without a mag. I think (not 100% sure though) the one time it happened to me, I was coming fresh from the spawn and was messing around with the laser sight on/off button. When I died (because my friggin gun didn't fire) I think (again - not 100% sure) I cought a glimpse at the ammo display in the bottom right corner showing the magazine offset by one slot. Is there maybe a chance that something causes the gun to think it has neither a bullet in the chamber nor a magazine, that could be triggered by some combination of sprinting/toggling underbarrel attachments/toggling firemodes or something like that? The weapon it happened with was the FAL, and my friend usually played the SKS, so I believe that's where it happened for him.
I am sure it is not a hit registration issue because it is very obvious when the gun does not shoot at all and neither sound is played nor any of the vfx that accompany a shot.
It's a rare bug, but since it will usually end with you dying and raging at the game, I think it's worth looking into.
Hope this helps.
Squad and Post Scriptim don't appeal to me either.
The things that bothered me most about Squad when I played it were too long TTK, poor performance, movement felt sluggish and almost impossible to play the game as a solo roamer. All of that is better in INS2014.
@tuliottr said in Changes I'd love to see.:
my thoughts exactly. I was really upset when they shared it, so much that I refunded the game. If you guys are unhappy with the directoon the game is going, you should do as me and speak with your wallets.
Sorry to hear that, this was not my intention. I do my best to judge the game as a value preposition that stands on its own. It certainly isn't the game that I wanted it to be, but I still see potential in it to be a better game for me than e.g. Squad. Time will tell...
Coop plays completely differently from PVP.
This is pvp, you can see it from the enemy voicechat icon (you can hear them when they are close enough I think), and the enemy team-attack warning in the log in the top-left corner. They are playing push, afaik that isn't available with bots yet.