Hi there - I am Link from The DGL and I've been hardcore nerdin' on INS Source for 5 years now. Yeah I compete, nbd.
Anyways, I thought I'd get some good dialogue going here.
First off for the optimization stuff - I am getting around 80-160 FPS with the following specs:
- GTX 980
- i7 8700k
- All low settings
- 16 GB DDR4 2666
- 860 EVO SSD
Key Things I think need to be worked on
A lot of people will say optmization - which is entirely true. I think there was a huge performance increase from Beta #1 to Beta #2. I had the same specs in both betas and my FPS increased an average of 40 FPS which is huge. They did that in 3 weeks.
I want to focus on some more things relevant to the game mechanics itself.
Reduce sway by 50%. Currently if you run around for a little bit and then try to aim down sight, the game has inherent sway that is very hard to control. It's a game within a game and is very frustrating.
Make it take twice as long to stop and change direction (right now it's like 0 seconds). I think like 0.5s or 1s added time to being able to run full speed then changing direction immediately. This could also be done by changing the rate of acceleration which I bring up below. Example of the issue I am talking about - https://clips.twitch.tv/DifferentExcitedGoatWOOP
Improved servers - the hit registration is an issue even in coop.
Reduce the ttk by maybe 15-20% (make all guns more powerful?).
Reduce horizontal recoil
Increase the vertical recoil
In source if you get shot while running, it cuts your speed down to almost nothing, this should be added into sandstorm. I would say, if I was being conservative, make people slow down by 50% if they are hit. This will help with the TTK being higher than source and make it more realistic/fun.
Decrease the rate of acceleration. I don't mind the top speed, but the acceleration is a bit too fast. You can reach top speed almost instantly which makes room fighting insanely fast and a bit random.
Currently the issue of this game is speed. The movement is too fast. I'm not a slow player by any means but the speed can be abused.
I'm a competitive player, I play the game to it's limits. If something can be abused, I will abuse it. I play to win. I don't play to play fair.
Right now, it is much more advantageous to just start sprinting as soon as you get shot at if you don't know where you are being shot at from (obviously if you're behind cover that doesn't mean sprint out), I am speaking more of in a 1v1 situation or where you are trying to cap an objective and get swarmed. You can nearly dodge bullets. Also, because people don't get slowed down if they are running and hit, it's very hard to kill people rushing.
I find myself spraying and praying more than just aiming. In Source, the best feeling was one tapping kids across the map. When you got in close range combat, you didn't see people just zipping around corners almost impossible to hit. In sandstorm, it's completely viable to full sprint into rooms now and then change directions because it's hard to hit. Also AD-strafe dancing is a thing because of the fast movement.
I find this game is a lot more spray and pray now than aiming, especially in comp 5v5. I don't want to risk missing a shot so I just spray when I see a guy. And most comp players are AD-strafing while fighting so that makes it even more beneficial to spray to hit them in the head.
I think this game has huge potential. I think it has good competitive potential as well (I know firefight is foreign to a lot of people but it's an awesome thinking game). A few numbers tweaks and all the great mechanics of INS Source would be back again.
I know I am biased because I am close to the devs but I think it's close. It needs work, but it's close. I know a lot more than most and I think NWI is doing a great job considering everything. Is it as good as it could have been? No. But I think we've all had our fair share of not doing our best, myself included, haha - and it's for sure not the worst they could have done!
What do you guys think?
Source was never entirely 1 hit kills because of difference damage models to arms and legs and the vertical recoil made it harder to spray people down.
I'm fine with the TTK, for now, but I want to see movement speed/movement direction change nerfed as well as tagging come into play. I also want to see suppression sway go away, vertical recoil increased, and horizontal recoil reworked.
The clip below sums up what I and others are experiencing. I know a lot of newer or more tactical players don't play like this but it is still an issue - especially in comp.
The door mechanics need to be worked on. In the beginning of this clip, we see a door that has been knocked down but still standing.
At the end we see multiple things.
- The door has not finished falling and the player is already running through
- The player can move way too quickly after kicking the door down
- The player can change direction with no speed penalty
I really do want to see the movement comparable to source. I have been going back and forth between the two and the movement is very different. The current movement is better than Beta 1 but it still needs some refinement.
On top of this - the strafe speed is still a bit too fast. It's close! But it needs to be dialed back like 10-20%.
Also I really believe animations are not synced up properly. I find that players will be running running running then they will go to stop but in third person it will look as if they teleport/hop back a couple frames. It's as if the server could not keep the third and first person player animations synced up. So other players see the player model kind of do a double take and then hop back. This leads to a lot of people missing shots. In comp we see this a lot because a lot of comp players abuse the movement speed and zig/zag/strafe as well as cut sharp angles. It's ALMOST like teleporting but it's just slow enough not to be.
I want bullets to be lethal. I'd say getting shot in the chest, even with heavy armor on, would hurt a lot more than stubbing your toe.
Add tagging along with a visual effect. Boom.
I wouldn't touch TTK until sway and movement changes are made. Currently you can change directions sharply with little to no effect on speed. This needs to be dialed back to the way source handles it.
The exclusion of kill feed to encourage communication does not work and will not work - it only frustrates tons of people who don't have a mic or cannot use it.
It works just fine. A microphone is needed in all competitive video games. Killfeed or not. People need to get a microphone if they want to play in comp or need to make keybinds / radial menu commands to report their kills.
I agree that for new people just learning firefight it is complicated - I want people to have to watch a 2-3 minute video the first time they join competitive that explains the firefight game mode in full. I also want the words "Overtime" to be displayed over the timer when it is indeed overtime.
Suppression shouldn't even be a thing.
If you get shot at in real life, your aim doesn't just magically start swaying around. And your vision doesn't go blurry (okay maybe if you're being bombed you'll be shaking from the shockwave).
I get the "artistic" effect of being shot at but yea... it's definitely too much and not fun. Especially because you have to run 5x more in Sandstorm than in Source to get to the objective because everything is spread out more.
My statement isn't wrong. You cannot deny that people are missing but thinking it's the TTK. That's why I love streaming, a lot of times I will think I hit a guy but then clip my stream and watch it at 0.25x speed and realize that I just missed.
The TTK isn't even that bad tbh, it's maybe double of source.
Also spraying has nothing to do with TTK. Even if it was 1 hit kill you'd still spray because the sway was messing with your aim. If you aren't tired and aren't suppressed, you don't need to spray with the current TTK or 1 hit kill TTK.
One more question if I may: wouldn't a 1-hit-kill weapon balancing fix all of this? My reasoning is if you get shot at from you-don't-know-where, you should be dead already unless the other guy has poor aim. And if someone rushes I'd imagine a competitive pro like you should have no problem to land at least one hit first if you were covering the right angle, and if you weren't... then fair game if you die, right?
Interested to hear your thoughts on this, because I never played comp, and firefight only very rarely.
I think that if you make every gun 1-hit-kill then the game becomes a little too easy in the opposite direction.
Right now, I spray to pray because player movement is insane. If it's 1-hit-kill then I spray because I don't need to aim to kill and that would be too much like COD4 Hardcore where you just sprayed wildly for a free kill. It's a balancing act. INS2 had a really good balance - insanely good balance. The gun mechanics were awesome. I think with the power of the unreal engine the mechanics could be even better.
I also don't mind that armor increases TTK, it just needs to be balanced. If the foregrip gave you crazy good recoil control and armor increased your TTK by 2-5 bullets but you had to choose between the two that's a good trade off. You also then have to factor in movement speed as well. It's a balancing act.
I must say, this game is great... and I know I am a broken record but the sway really really does bother me. It is very frustrating that the game messes with my aim and I can't hit targets far away. I have no problem with high vertical recoil but the random sway is frustrating.
This would not be an issue if the maps were more like Source, close quarters, less running. Because sandstorm maps are more spread out, you can't creep through an open area - you must run to avoid being shot. That means you are out of stamina quite a bit.
Especially for firefight, the game mode is about rotations and making split second decisions. A lot of times you need to make big rotations to stop a cap or something. I don't mind sway - I think Source had this down perfect - in Sandstorm it's just too much.
But more importantly, a lot of the beginning round is spent running to objectives because the spawns are far away from the objectives. This means you are out of stamina A LOT. This is even more so for skirmish and push. You could walk to the objective but that would make the game very slow and you wouldn't be playing much just walking. In fact, even running around on skirmish and push it still feels a lot of the time like it takes forever to actually get into combat.
I talked about this earlier with some skirmish players. Maybe adding more vehicles would increase the intensity of the battles. Right now, vehicles aren't really a presence even though the maps are created largely to incorporate vehicles. Most of the time the vehicles are destroyed or someone took it and left it somewhere. It'd be nice to have more vehicles, maybe include 3 vehicles for skirmish 16v16. Two trucks are just transport, and 1 has a gunner on it.
The suppression sway also really gets me. It's one thing to have your vision go blurry and it's another for your aim to start moving around all over the place.
I think source had it down perfect. Because of the larger maps in Sandstorm, stamina/suppression sway is actually frustrating to play with. I don't want to walk across the map just so I can be sure I will be able to shoot people without sway. I have to run across open fields to get to protection.
In a weird way... it almost makes rushing MORE viable, because no one can hit you. A lot of times I just rush instead of shooting at people because I know I am too far away to hit them with the sway.