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That we, in our arrogance, believed that Humankind was first among the races of this galaxy will exposed as folly of the worst kind upon the awakening of these ancient beings. Any hopes, dreams or promises of salvation are naught but dust in the wind.

About me

High Lord Nemesor of Vykanovokh
Advisor of the White Tyrant
Servant of the Silent King
Grand Admiral of the Vykanovokh Navy
Black Hearted Enemy of The Aeldari
Triarch Loyalist

Recent Posts
posted in Battlefleet Gothic: Armada read more

@beernchips well, the Druhkari were less debated, but the reason why people say the Necrons are bad is a thorough examination of their ships and skills which has been done more than once. Taking their escorts as an example, they have repeatedly lost to ork escorts in max range shootouts, despite 100% accuracy. Their hp regenerates much slower than shields do as another point, and they don’t get that extra bit of hp or shielding from lightning strikes/crits. They also have very low DPS compared to other factions, and very high costs (ex: a cruiser costs more than an apocalypse class BB while being no where near as good). There are many more pints, but I don’t want to clog up the thread here. I am sure that you could find the many threads debating this, but people did not feel like copy pasting those arguments over here as they have already been said. I agree with the rest of your post though.

posted in Battlefleet Gothic: Armada read more

@beernchips druhkari are great against all factions, they can drop a cairn to zero in 30 seconds flat. Relying on plain numbers without context is very unwise, especially in competitive games and especially early on. For example, there is another game I play called DoTA 2. There are two characters in it I would like to use to further explain my point, known as rikki and earth spirit. Earth spirit has a very low winrate, so he must be bad by your logic. This is false. He is so good he is banned from use at the start of most official tournaments during the banning phase, or at least he was last I checked. He is very good, but checked by incompetence and such in low levels leading to his low winrate. In The Druhkari case, the last time I defeated them, it was because they tried to brawl with me like they were IN. Valrak also commented that he has seen many doing this in his newest video, further reinforcing my point. I expect this to change as the game ages. The Necrons in this case a rikki. He has a very high winrate, so he must be good right? No, he’s bad, but gains permanent invisability. This can be countered by several very cheap items, after which he dies very easily. As such, you don’t see him much outside of their equivalent of bronze. The Necrons, like rikki, are just not facing truly competent opposition in those lower tiers, and can thus doggedly scrape a win using min maxing. This is not the case in gold and up. I could provide many useless anecdotes about getting smacked around, but instead I’ll back up my argument with the highest ranking leaderboards that got posted on reddit today. In the highest ranking, there are few players. In ultra high were the nids, obviously, with 27 players. Merely super high we’re the Druhkari, with 19 players, supporting my earlier argument. After them came the high rank, SM, with 12 players. Medium rank is 8 players, and had IN, Chaos, and orks. Low, after that, was 4 players, being Asuryani and Tau Protector. Next we have even lower tier, where ad mech and Necrons firmly reside with two players each. Super low is Tau merchant, who only have one player. Below that is literally why tier, where corsairs and their grand total of 0 players exist. The statistical implications should be obvious, and helpful since you insisted upon the importance of numbers over people who experience the game.

Edit: To clarify I am talking about the top tier of players in my final analysis, it’s called legendary league I think, above epic rank.

posted in BFG - General Discussion read more

@brohanbroski I did consider that. My calcs were all about considering that. Without considering armor and accuracy the regen rate compared to shields is over 10x less, with it its close but still far lower.

posted in BFG - General Discussion read more

@bould What i would like the most I suppose is some new ships with new weapons or unique subfaction upgrade, because one of the things the necrons lack the most is diversity at the moment. It would make them much more enjoyable to play.

posted in BFG - General Discussion read more

@bould said in Necron Feedback, Pros and Cons:

@nemesor-xanxas said in Necron Feedback, Pros and Cons:

@cowgomoo said in Necron Feedback, Pros and Cons:

Shields are not equivalent to hp... Shields take 100% macro damage. Heavy armor takes 17%. Against macros hull is 6x as effective. Lances are a different story.

If you think Necrons melt to macros this version you have not played them much. They melt to huge Lance fleets but not macros unless it's AP at 4.5k.

E. G. A very high 100 macro dps fleet has 17 dps versus heavy armor. That's assuming the unrealistic 100% accuracy. Typical accuracy is maybe 60%, so that 17 becomes 10. Necron hull regen makes it 9 dps, switch stances for an extra plus 2 and now you do 7 dps.

All the mobility issues are why mass recall is mandatory. It let's to you squash escorts and LCs and force the enemy to use capital ships to cap, which again let's you use mass recall to collapse and kill. Necron escorts are also damn near immortal since you can inertialess drive the instant they get revealed so you shouldn't be losing yours outside of misplays.

Necrons are not top tier, but I think with very strong mass recall use they are competitive against certain builds and not trash tier like Corsairs currently. I would like some changes so they are not so dependant on this style, similar to how Nids are a 1-trick carrier spam pony, Necrons are a 1-trick mass recall faction.

Well, if we take 6x as effective as the as true for shields v hull (its a bit lower but close enough) then the shield equivalent of those 60 hull points would be 360 shield points, which is less than half of the 800 that was just regenerated. And of course still ignores the crit issues and the cap issues, and that there can be 4BBs with this health compared to the two cairns. At max regen stance it is 7% dps v 100, which if I am mathing it right actually is pretty close, surpassing the regen slightly at 854 and some decimals per minute. Of course, it still isn't as good as there is a cap and thus more will be regenerated if the shield cycles 4 times on the enemy BB (and it should), and again doesn't account for the cairn costing about 2BBs and thus will be facing 2 BBs of hp/regen. It is also spending a stance to be about equal with ships that cost two hundred points less regeneration wise. Without the stance, it only regens 666+decimals per minute, and is back to slower again.

On macros, that is supposed to say druhkari macros. Szarekh Damn autocorrect. I'll fix that. On the matter of macros though, cairns will go down pretty quick to them, mostly because they cost half a fleet and thus will be outnumbered 2-1 by macro BBs if they go that route. Probably 4-1 becuase focusing BBs is common from what I've seen and no one brings 2 cairns.

On the mobility issue, the problem is it shouldn't have to be mandatory, that it an pyramidal are show the gaping holes in the faction. Abilities are supposed to be tactical, not necesary fixes. And even then any fleet with a manuever gauge can still escape, especially it you are trying to kill an admiral with mwj as they are just so much more agile with that gauge. Even with it you'll need to get lucky to pin an Aeldari faction and if the enemy balls it doesn't matter because you need to as well, which happens quite often to me.But then again I am stuck in low rank, so its probably different higher up. And escorts are shieldless and low HP, they explode if looked at. Maybe if its imperials or orks they are immortal but Chaos, Tau, or non corsair Aeldari factions? Its dead before it can jump.

I think the way you ended with against "certain" builds says it all really.

@BrohanBroski see above

100% this guy knows what he's on about.

Tankiness is not the problem, I don't think I've ever actually seen a Cairn die before it's had every weapon critted off or mutinied or hulked.

The problem is that for its cost its not putting out anywhere near enough damage and this is the common theme across the whole necron line.

For an extra 50 points orcs can bring !5! Drednots comparative to the 2 Cairns a necron can field.

I would have absolutely no problem with keeping them as the slow tanky faction that has to play around no bombers or assault craft, no all ahead full or emergency maneuvers, no shields, pigeonholed into taking the exact same abilities every time, smaller fleets and considerably less abilities in general if those smaller fleets had the dakka to compensate for all the flaws but they just don't.

I agree completely. Maybe I should have added in a "for their cost" as if Cairns were like 300 pts they would be okay, but need a dps buff. I have seen more than a few cairns die, but only to chaos, druhkari, and nova spam. Usually. I seen one or two die in other ways, but rarely. Necrons need a lot of tweeks, due to all the issues you mentioned, but the DPS and pricing ones are the biggest. I had a massive post that outlined all the flaws in the current necron lineup, and the main points could be summarized as you don't get your bang for you buck. Ignoring the other issues, I have no idea what to do about the mentioned cairn murdering fleets, but to start I would give the necrons a universal DPS buff, increase regen by 1.5 and remove the cap (this makes it ~equal to the shield regen of the other ships) and then reconsider pricing. No idea how to fix the other stuff tho.

posted in BFG - General Discussion read more

@brohanbroski I mean its alot better than it was due to the armor buff, but consider that necrons regenerate slower than the average imperial ship even taking armor into account, and that their ships cost so damn much meaning many more ships with similar HP pools will be present. I have seen Tau, Druhkari, ork, demiurg, and nid vessels all solo a cairn, and all but the nid one did it with pure gunfire. Maybe if they cost the same as other races ships they would be tanky enough, but they don't have nearly proportional health. Last I checked, I Necron cruiser cost as much as an imperial battelship, and was no where near as tanky ( or good in any other regards obviously. I don't really think that this equates to being tanky enough.

posted in BFG - General Discussion read more

@cowgomoo said in Necron Feedback, Pros and Cons:

Shields are not equivalent to hp... Shields take 100% macro damage. Heavy armor takes 17%. Against macros hull is 6x as effective. Lances are a different story.

If you think Necrons melt to macros this version you have not played them much. They melt to huge Lance fleets but not macros unless it's AP at 4.5k.

E. G. A very high 100 macro dps fleet has 17 dps versus heavy armor. That's assuming the unrealistic 100% accuracy. Typical accuracy is maybe 60%, so that 17 becomes 10. Necron hull regen makes it 9 dps, switch stances for an extra plus 2 and now you do 7 dps.

All the mobility issues are why mass recall is mandatory. It let's to you squash escorts and LCs and force the enemy to use capital ships to cap, which again let's you use mass recall to collapse and kill. Necron escorts are also damn near immortal since you can inertialess drive the instant they get revealed so you shouldn't be losing yours outside of misplays.

Necrons are not top tier, but I think with very strong mass recall use they are competitive against certain builds and not trash tier like Corsairs currently. I would like some changes so they are not so dependant on this style, similar to how Nids are a 1-trick carrier spam pony, Necrons are a 1-trick mass recall faction.

Well, if we take 6x as effective as the as true for shields v hull (its a bit lower but close enough) then the shield equivalent of those 60 hull points would be 360 shield points, which is less than half of the 800 that was just regenerated. And of course still ignores the crit issues and the cap issues, and that there can be 4BBs with this health compared to the two cairns. At max regen stance it is 7% dps v 100, which if I am mathing it right actually is pretty close, surpassing the regen slightly at 854 and some decimals per minute. Of course, it still isn't as good as there is a cap and thus more will be regenerated if the shield cycles 4 times on the enemy BB (and it should), and again doesn't account for the cairn costing about 2BBs and thus will be facing 2 BBs of hp/regen. It is also spending a stance to be about equal with ships that cost two hundred points less regeneration wise. Without the stance, it only regens 666+decimals per minute, and is back to slower again.

On macros, that is supposed to say druhkari macros. Szarekh Damn autocorrect. I'll fix that. On the matter of macros though, cairns will go down pretty quick to them, mostly because they cost half a fleet and thus will be outnumbered 2-1 by macro BBs if they go that route. Probably 4-1 becuase focusing BBs is common from what I've seen and no one brings 2 cairns.

On the mobility issue, the problem is it shouldn't have to be mandatory, that it an pyramidal are show the gaping holes in the faction. Abilities are supposed to be tactical, not necesary fixes. And even then any fleet with a manuever gauge can still escape, especially it you are trying to kill an admiral with mwj as they are just so much more agile with that gauge. Even with it you'll need to get lucky to pin an Aeldari faction and if the enemy balls it doesn't matter because you need to as well, which happens quite often to me.But then again I am stuck in low rank, so its probably different higher up. And escorts are shieldless and low HP, they explode if looked at. Maybe if its imperials or orks they are immortal but Chaos, Tau, or non corsair Aeldari factions? Its dead before it can jump.

I think the way you ended with against "certain" builds says it all really.

@BrohanBroski see above

posted in BFG:A2 - Technical Feedback read more

@pointdexter So it looks like Necrons are tied with the ad mech fit the4/3rd worst faction, kinda surprised about the admech but I suppose once you get that high novaspam can only get you so far. Lol that comment is accurate though.

posted in BFG - General Discussion read more

@cowgomoo shields recover many times faster than Necron hulls do, and have no cap. If a BBcycles it’s shields three times (and it’s will do so abd more) That’s the cairns entire hp bar. They also block crits while they are up, give a full third more hp to battleships vs cairns, and block lightning strikes. Necrons cannot cycle out either due to their speed, as ID reveals you so that ship just gets chased down. A minute of cairn Regen is 60hp. A minute and getting shields back on another BB is 800 hp. Armor doesn’t help at all either, as it takes 10-20 seconds for macro Druhkari to kills cairn. Craftworlders can half or more it per torp run, and a macro salvo from admech/IN will instakill it. On kiting, Necrons can’t split for points as their ships are to few and weak individuallyso get easily picked off. For crits, are above, no shields=most critable faction in the game.


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