That we, in our arrogance, believed that Humankind was first among the races of this galaxy will exposed as folly of the worst kind upon the awakening of these ancient beings. Any hopes, dreams or promises of salvation are naught but dust in the wind.
High Lord Nemesor of Thokt
Advisor of the Regent Of Meghosta
Servant of the Silent King
Grand Admiral of the Thokt Navy
Black Hearted Enemy of The Aeldari
@sn1percat even in its situational use, its pretty bad. It requires ships to stay within a small area and gain almost no benefit in exchange for said small area not damaging them. Maybe it would be kinda useful against nids, but spore fields really aren't what you should be worrying about with them. In general its situational because to actually use it you have to restrict yourself extensively and there are just better options. The sole realistic time it would be useful is if you wanted to drive through an asteroid field, and thats not really worth an upgrade slot.
Hello, I have encountered a strange bug. When playing the Necron campaign on normal difficulty, I fought space marines over Lelithar (they had mines, defense platforms and a station if that helps) and started going through the process of getting my ships destroyed and reversing them. After killing all the marines, I put my fleet in a cloud to heal undetected when my light Cruiser with 5 crew scuttled itself. It shouldn’t have been possible to scuttle a ship with crew, nor was there any button, but the red circle appeared and blew my escorts up. Not sure why this happened.
@sn1percat Well, I never played AoE but the first 40k game I played was DoW, which was released 15years ish ago now and that had a replay and observer option. Also oh god that was 15 years ago I feel really old now. But yeah that really should have been in at launch, but as with most 40k things I am always ready for disappointment.
Phase Shifter (Necrons)/Navigation Shields (Imperials/Tau)/Polarised Fields (Eldar)/Krumpin Zones (Orks). Remove it or make it a passive for certain factions by default. It’s a skill that negates mines, asteroids and spore fields. It’s incredibly situational, and relies on the environment which is randomly generated. It’s not something anyone would ever take, and a waste of a slot.
@sn1percat well that’s one way blocked. I heard there was someone working on a mod for the game awhile back, did anything ever come of it?
Edit: Since I’m here anyways does anyone know how to recall strike craft? I tried spamming/pressing the skill button but all that happened was nothing most of the time but once it got off the ship I threw them at and went some distance away to circle in place and after some more pressing the button they jumped back on the ship.
If I am recalling correctly, valrak did a cinematic battle between orks and imperials, so for now you could ask him how he did that. A mod might work, but I think easy anti-cheat might block it in multiplayer.
But yeah, here’s my obligatory I support this post.
@ahriman If you don't have any evidence for something, then maybe you shouldn't try and make statements that claim it. My statement about necron carriers was responding to your claim that it stated in lore that they did not use bombers and assault boats on carriers, and you know the context because my last point was flat out quoting that at you. If you are going to make statements that the lore says something, then yes you are obligated to do so, otherwise don't make claims you know you can't back up.
This is not getting us anywhere, so I am just going to quickly respond to your points and then try to summarize as this is just getting cyclical.
-On the big balance point: I think that makes sense. If you had said this and then "as such something something this would make the ship unbalanced" at the start we wouldn't have needed to have this go on long. Thats why I made the comment about not being very good at balance, because I was hoping someone would post an in depth explanation of why they are saying it would be a big issue instead of insult me or say things that can be summarized as its OP because it is.
On the unique comment, I apologize, you are correct that I missed the one of part.
On strengths, it annoys me that they don't have them in game, but I also understand that trying to balance it would likely be too difficult. I understand that firepower, speed, durability, and so on had to be tuned down for fairness, and as much as I hate what they did with ID it was probably to fast for a game like this, what most irritates me about the necrons in their current state is that they don't have a turn maneuver, as it means they have to ever so slowly reorient themselves. Its the most obvious way the fleet doesn't really resemble its lore/tt self.
On making the eldar, yeah, that's why they couldn't do the above. Its actually about 50/50 with the arcs though. The Cairn, Jackal, Dirge, Reaper, Ruiner and I think shroud have that, while the Kopesh, Cartouche, Harrower, and Harvester have broadsides, while the Sekhern has 90 front. I don't recall what arcs the carrier has. So its 6ish out of 12 that have the 270arc, which annoys me because broadsides feel imperial but that's how its always been so there's not much I can do about it.
Alright, onto the summarizing. The point of this thread was I always wanted to mess around with necron bombers and other such strike craft, but since this isn't empire at war you can't just have them running around without a carrier. So thusly I wanted a necron carrier, and hoped at some point we would get one, and then we did. I became confused when noticing the ship said it had them due to the fact the devs lazily copypasted the imperial tooltip over, and wondered why they lacked them from a lore standpoint as to me it made no sense that all they necron strike craft were missing as my mind believed in necron carriers for a long time as my mind made the following logical pathway:
-Some strike craft seem to have FTL by their description (like night scythes) but tomb blades don't due to their size.
-Tomb blades were designed to fight in void battles originally so they had to get their somehow.
-Necrons cannot just teleport things into various places in space or they woudn't have FTL troubles.
-Tomb blades are not created from some form of autogenesis
-Thus something must bring them
-Thus necrons must have carriers
I honestly would have dropped it if not for two things, one the tooltip left genuinely confused about whether they messed up or not and two I was operating under the assumption at the time that this wasn't the only thing they messed up, as surely they didn't think returning starpulse spam was a good idea and thus the new cruiser missing starpulse and the new light cruiser lacking it was a switch up right? So, due to the fact it seemed to me like this might have been a mistake and the fact it makes sense to me that a carrier the necrons would have made would have all their strike craft as logically it makes sense to me something is needed to carry the craft into battle due to necron FTL messes and the fact they are used in void battles so I made a thread explaining my opinion on the matter and seeking the opinion of others. I also stated my thoughts that it wasn't particularly good either as one of the reasons I believed this might have been a mistake. As you can tell, it didn't go well. I had hoped some other people would chip in with their opinions and eventually a staff member would jump in and explain it was one way or the other so I could go "oh, okay" but instead it became another argument about balance. I brought up lore, as lorewise it made no sense to me that the carrier had no bombers and such due to the above and how much of a waste building a carrier for only fighters seemed to be, and thus we got in an argument. The staff, as usual, never showed up.
I did all this because I prioritize lore over gameplay. Not in the "this unit should be unbalanced because lore" sense but the "this game was great because it had a good story despite bad mechanics" sense. I don't really mind if necrons are bad or not, I just want to be able experience playing with a necron fleet and listening to a necron story. So when I see this new ship and think "to me this makes no sense from a lore perspective" I am not really thinking about it from a balance perspective. I did originally make threads about that as I need the fleet to be playable to complete storymode, but the issues while never resolved were fixed by nerfing other factions. Mostly.
The thing I had hoped the staff would do and would satisfy everyone was pop in and say "we can't add them for balance reasons but can say that it has them lorewise" because lorewise is all I care about in regards to the conundrum for the ship, which is why repeatedly said things like I would be okay if the bombers and assualt craft did literally 0 damage or just self destructed upon activation. Now, I would like a full carrier gamplay wise as necrons are somewhat dull as they are in game due to lacking all the things you could do for fun if they were lore/tt accurate, like using your superspeed for ramming fleets and the addition of a carrier would help with that, but apparently that would be overpowered so I guess that's off the table. I don't play multiplayer very much, being mostly a story mode kind of guy (though now that there are rewards I might have to) so instead of nitpicking about balance I spend my time nitpicking about lore, which again is the thing I actually care about. I am probably one of the only people who paid for the game solely for the story, not that thats unusual given how many important things are in the absurdly expensive supplements.
Or, TL: DR I am a necron fan who came here to talk about necron stuff, and objected to it not having bombers on a lore ground more than anything else. I hope this texblock stack has now fully conveyed my position to you in a way that inspires less anger and more agree to disagree sentiment.
@ahriman you have repeatedly made easily disproven statements. First you claimed that Necrons only use strike craft in planetary assaults, then you claimed to quote you “ THE SAME LORE STATES that they don’t use them on carriers for whatever reason”, and then you claimed they don’t use them in void battles. These were all false, and you responded to my pointing this out with insults. Generally, that’s the kind of behavior one would expect from someone who has been embarrassed, or “humiliated” as you put it. You then used my pointing out no, it doesn’t say Necrons don’t use these craft in carriers anywhere as another reason to attack me. Unless you can, right now, give a page number and book for your assertion, I don’t think it’s me whose trying to “turn facts on their head”. You then claim it was a lack of carriers that made the Necrons unique as a fleet. This is false. What made them unique was their incredible maneuverability, firepower, and speed, none of which are present in this game yet I don’t see you talking about that.
Unless you have already forgotten, you should know that the carrier already has fighter bombers, so it already does that damage you seem so concerned about. Bombers just mean the damage could be burst or over time. It’s something that effects one ship, in one faction, and does not change its play style. Most of its cost comes from the shortish ranged guns it has, so even with the new craft it’s going to have to close in while throwing out strike craft like it already does. Your suggestion on the other hand, reverting Lances, would affect just about half of all ships in every faction and completely change how the game is played. Suddenly, some ships would be hard counters by others, abd the whole meta would shift. That’s why I call that affecting other factions and adding bombers not.
@beernchips Its supposed to be a carrier for a faction with void bombers and assault boats so I don't see how it isn't meant to have them. No other factions have carriers with only one kind of strike craft, thus I don't make any comments. Orks possess assault boats in addition to fighter-bombas in game, and the tau have a secondary fighter that reduces enemy armor. But fine, if it bothers you so much I'll stop talking about it.
@Ahriman insulting people isn't a particularly effective way of debating you realize. It is stated a grand total of nowhere that necrons don't use carriers or that their strike craft don't use carriers, and as I already explained to you it is mentioned in every single codex since necrons got fighters that they use them in voidbattles. In fact, tomb blades were originally for void use only, and were only later adapted for atmospheric roles. I in fact, cannot honor my factions doctrine because that is highly maneuverable ships operating independently at high speeds lore wise, and even in TT utilized on their great speed and maneuverability. In this game, they have the maneuverability of a tortoise and speed of a quadriplegic and do not resemble the faction they are in lore or were in TT beyond being highly armored and having the same ship shapes. They don't even have turns, which can make the only maneuver skill they do have extremely frustrating as it often makes it so enemy ships exist your own firing arc.
I wouldn't particularly mind if lances got most of their power back because they are fairly bad at the moment. And I fail to see how stating a carrier should have assault boats and bombers affects other factions though, as I said repeatedly I don't care if the things don't actually do anything I am just stating they should have them.
@sn1percat I feel like you didn't bother to read my full post. This isn't about making necrons good or bad. This is about the fact the necrons have assault boats and bombers, they use them in the void, and for whatever reason the only carrier they have doesn't have them. This is about the fact the carrier does not in fact act as a carrier. You could give all the strikecraft a dps of 0 for all I care, but not having something the ship should have according to lore is incredibly aggravating.
I used to complain about them being weak, because they used to be terrible. After launch you could have chaos BB stacks melt entire necron fleets before they entered detection range and so on. Then armor changed, nids/boarding got nerfed, and so on and the fleet stopped being terrible. I coincidentally stopped talking about them for a while when that happened. My main complaint with them pre-addon of the new ships is that I really didn't like the way ID worked and the gaping holes and the necrons mechanics make them monobuild, which isn't a very engaging playstyle. Then the new ships hit, and I had a lot to complain about. One ship was full on useless (the BC), and another was in a weird spot because no starpulse (the new cruiser), but the last two were of particular concern. The starpulse light cruiser was a terrible idea, they removed starpulse spam for a reason and its rather overpowered. The carrier, the thing I had been asking for since day one, received most of my ire because it wasn't a carrier, it was as Ive repeatedly said a battlecruiser with more fighters. You don't use the ship like you would a carrier, its a tanky slow vessel with a lot of gun. The entire point of adding a carrier was to add a new way to play the faction, but they still play exactly the same. And thats why I made a thread about the carrier and only the carrier. I didn't make a thread about the terrible new BC. I didn't make one asking why the cruiser lacks starpulse. And I didn't make one about all the other issues the necrons have, up to and including the fact they don't actually play like lore necrons. I made a thread because the ship doesn't actually function as a carrier (ie something that adds in long range boarding and burst damage which allows you to do carrier things) and adds nothing from a gameplay perspective. I said before it started the game I didn't care if the necrons were bad as long as they got them right thematically. They didn't, but it was passable so I focused on all the holes in their mechanics. This is one such hole. I wouldn't care if the ship had 73HP and the damage as a frigate if it had bombers and assault boats, because again thats the entire point of a carrier. Balance is a separate issue.