I just completed a match in CCL 21 but the result was not recorded; on restarting Blood Bowl 2 it says I have a match ongoing, would I like to reconnect (...a no will be counted as a concession). Clicking yes there is a small pause and then I remain on the main menu, with no result yet recorded. The match was my Orcs vs Goblins
I actually get some tears in my eyes when I read your stuff ridonz.... I felt alone in the BB world a bit.
It's an emotional game
My board game collection covers 60 great games. 25 of them 1vs1 games, and BB is one of them. My experience with board games tells me that Blood bowl should be made in two versions... the present one, and one that uses a system with heavy reduction in randomness... and of course if you make a pricepool tournament... the latter should be used. Let the ones that want to go "happy go lucky" do that! And let the players that want even more skill into the game get that... I really can't see the problem with this... BB2 would be super great with abit less random in it. I still remember "Battle chess" on the PC, but a less random BB2 would outshine that!
Mori-Mori has helped me see that the crux of the problem is the board-game style vs computer game style. The (vocal) BB community is dominated by people who like playing face-to-face, and like the computer game version to help them play in between tournaments. If you come from the other side its quirks are out of place. That's where your "two versions" comes in.
GW is very unlikely to change a successful boardgame formula for the sake of a computer game, even if it were possible to somehow prove that the changes we are suggesting would be better.
Perhaps Cyanide would be interested though...
It looks to me like you are just specifically emphasize certain outcomes, because you are personally not very fond of them.
I suppose you are right. I would like to emphasise that I'm not a pixel hugger in that I like the possibility of death, I just would rather it happened later in a match. The outcome I don't like is an imbalance in CAS, not the CAS themselves, and the CAS table rolls don't have any skill associated with them. I play bashy teams who depend on numbers advantage so I see the randomness in the injuries. If I played AG teams (and maybe I should) I suppose I would see the randomness in the dodge outcomes more, and could handle the loss of players (early) better
Despite the fact they are all just elements of the same risk management game. You may or may not consider that this Saurus needs to be stopped at a possible risk of losing your player, at this very moment, the same way as you either will or won't decide to do some risky dodges, or move too close to sidelines, or don't stand up some player (thus making him a target for a foul, possibly) - and all of those actions may easily end in your player's removal. Decision like "to mark or not to mark" is basically reduced to controlling the rate of damage done to your team. And most of actions in BB, not just blocks, may end in injuries and removals. Sometimes you may decide it worth to take more risk and possible damage, sometimes your opponent will happen to be so good at positioning that he'll force a more risky and damaging game on you. Risk management is what we compete at in BB.
Fair enough, "risk management" is the name of the game. With a few tweaks the system could be more deterministic and predictable. The injury system is the obvious place to change in that regard, putting it more in line with other combat systems with health/hit points. I postulate that the game would be more popular in terms of total numbers in the player base, but agree that it would not be popular as a board game. In fact, I can't think of any other board game with a complex endurance system like I've proposed; on the other hand I can't think of any combat computer games with random removals of key units to one standard hit.
Thanks for the feedback, we'll still give it a try but perhaps the simpler proposals would be better than mine for table top.
Yes I agree with you rildonz. Injuries/deaths/KO are so total random and first blocks can often ruin the whole match.
They are not much more random than anything else in the game...
I think you're wrong about that. Certainly pick ups and dodges (and block dice) are random. If you are in a desperate position a failure on any of those could be strategically very bad. But kudos to your opponent for putting you in that position (or boo to you for picking a low AG team). However stragegically placing someone to stop a saurus from moving, and ending up permanently removed, has very little to do with your choice of player or strategy. (AV does have something to do with it, admittedly). If the failure just stuffed your turn then it would be on a par with the others, but it may disadvantage you for the rest of the game. While mighty blow, claw, AV of the team, can and does influence attrition, they are very much out of your hands once the game starts. Maximise blocks you do, minimise those you receive, sure, but how is that balanced against the current tactical needs?
.... And this is just sad for a game with such incredible potenial.
Indeed, all the other parts a pretty good. Random deaths early in a game has so many negatives on how one plays, strategises, and enjoys the game, all to the negative in my view. If you play with friends on a tabletop I can see how the game is more fun as it is, but maybe now a revamp could be considered by those with the power to change things
Of course my greatest complain about the game is the death of players you grind for hours and hours. Deaths of players made me stop playing the game several times the last 10 years.
I don't mind that bit, if I could have a bit more control about who I sacrifice and when
If you really hope for such overhaul made by Cyanide (you was talking about using it in your own TT league first), I would suggest you to leave all hopes behind right away Partly because of reasons I mentioned here,
I agree, I guess the point is to throw some ideas out there and see if they stick with the community. Of course no developer is going to change a game based on an idea in a random thread. But the BB rules have changed over the years, including significantly a couple of times (early on). Cyanide/GW seems to have been happy to take this on board, mostly. The changes were driven by the community and, presumably, a consensus that something should change. My feeling is that now is a good time to discuss that, with so many new players and online play being well supported. The basic mechanics are sound enough that it will carry on fine as it is. I think replacing the injury system could really improve the game's appeal. I'll put you down on my list of signatures I'll send to cyanide
A couple of things to note in response to some of the comments.
I don't have a problem with losing players to being bashed, I just want justice for the number of blocks I throw. This suggestion is not about avoiding losing players; I play bash teams mostly, I like beating up the opposition, and don't mind taking it in return. But I'd like to know that the good play in turns 1-3 helps me later in the match. But as it stands, my attempt at attrition is still in the lap of the same Random god in turn 12 (unless a removal snowball has started for myself or the opposition).
Watching some good players on youtube (e.g. jimmy fantastic) the bash v bash games have very little bash in them, just stand offs with hoping for the better luck in the blitz-off. And the first turn injuries can decide the game, or at the very least, decide the enjoyment of the game.
To reaffirm: majority of blood bowl games are played online, the extra book keeping is not a problem, so it would be nice to see an overhaul that keeps its beauty and eliminates the most random/influential element of the game.
@shaggrath Fair enough; I think its a bad thing when it comes to removals. I'd like to play the game where positioning becomes mostly about control of the line and stopping opponents from moving by basing them; but often basing is a bad decision because you could get instantly removed. Instead there is a lot of avoiding of opponents even by bash teams, until the final push. This seems a pity to me