@yabatman Sorry, but I disagree in almots every thing you. But I will not go into it further, because I don't want an endless meaningless discussion you alread had with Ahriman. I accept that you do not change your mind, no matter what I write here. But maybe you can teach me better and play 10 games with a chaos kiting fleet against a legendary or at least gold player, win half of them, record them and share them on youtube or whatever. I and all the other players who disagree here with you would definitely be happy to learn from your experience.
@yabatman As I wrote the statistic don't tell anything about the builds and strategies used. Whitch build/strategy was sucessful and which not. As I remember for chaos, the most popular build was the 5x Slaughter setup with reload stance, which is still viable.
Lance mechanics, of course they should be changed for all factions.
I know that the escort are very important for reconnaissance, but the opponent knows that too. For this reason they are priority targets in MP. And they die very quickly, its nearly impossible to withdraw them.
Regarding aviation, I do not think it is quite effective, just need to use it correctly. For example, do not send bombers alone, but send first fighters that will distract anti-aircraft guns and then bombers.
I know how to use aviation , but at the time you send your bombers after the first fighter wave the enemy is already on you, or the enemy is to fast for your bombers, or you are loosing sight and the aircraft return. Imo aviation need rework.
@tr3iz Fun yes, success no. I am trying to play a mixture of an kiting ordnance fleet: 1 styx, 2 archeron, 2 carnage and 3 infidel. Imo kiting with chaos does not work in the current meta for several reasons:
The alpha strike damage is to low. You cause too little damage in the time the opponent needs to close up, in most cases, you are not even able to bring down the shields. One possible improvement would be to increase the damage and reloadtime in the same relation (dps stays the same). So you could fire and during reload reposition. Or an other option make reload work with lances.
Detection. There are too little options for survey. You have to rely on escorts, which are destroyed first in MP and then you are blind (you cannot shoot at something you cannot see). So you have to close up, where lances are second. One possible solution imo whould be, if we could have splitted launch bays, giving orders to every launch bay separaty to survey a larger area. Or reduce the cooldown of augur probe dramatically (by 75%).
Ordnance. Bombers in the current meta are not really reliable and counterd to easily. An improvement of bombers would be desireable, for example, a 50% increase in speed.
@yabatman First, the statistic is old and it says nothing about whether macro brawl or lance kiting fleets were used. Several people have already stated that the slaughter brawling fleetbuild works. Lance Kiting with chaos does not work for several reasons:
- The alpha strike damage is to low. You cause too little damage in the time the opponent needs to close up, in most cases, you are not even able to bring down the shields. One possible improvement would be to increase the damage and reloadtime in the same relation (dps stays the same). So you could fire and during reload reposition. Or an other option make reload work with lances.
- Detection. There are too little options for survey. You have to rely on escorts, which are destroyed first in MP and then you are blind (you cannot shoot at something you cannot see). So you have to close up, where lances are second. One possible solution imo whould be, if we could have splitted launch bays, giving orders to every launch bay separaty to survey a larger area. Or reduce the cooldown of augur probe dramatically (by 75%).
- Ordnance, I know it's not a typical lance topic but it yould help for a kiting fleet. Bombers in the current meta are not really reliable and counterd to easily. An improvement of bombers would be desireable, for example, a 50% increase in speed.
@yabatman Yes I agree, chaos should also have an chance of winning. The leaderboards of the last season tells an other story.
Legendary rank was dominated by the imbalance factions themselves, Tau Merchants, Orcs and Necrons, and the game still has balance problems.
One player of Chaos was still at Legendary Rank (player Jamodon), but there was not even one player for the Imperial Navy.
As I recognized it he played a Slaughter Macro Brawling fleet. Nobody claims that this build not gonna work. But long range kiting fleets (Chaos, but also Admec, Imp,...), which rely on lances are not competition capable. In relation to the tabletop and the first BFGA this is the way chaos should operate. I do not claim that chaos is the only faction needs help, based on the last season there are some. I think all faction which rely on long range lance fire power have a big problem at the moment. My suggestion to improve this is to increase damage and reload time at the same moment (keep the dps). As I sated before: Shoot (high damage) and reposition during reload (long reload time). This would be a viable strategy. I also would appreciate some more scouting skills for chaos.
@yaBATMAN I agree with you in a perfect situation when ships are flying at a distance of 13,5k parallel to each other, and without reload, lances outperform macros. But that unlikely gonna happen. In reality to keep your distance you have to turn away and fly in the oposite direction, where you are not able to inflict any damage at your enemy. After you reached enough distance you turn and get one or when you are lucky two salvos which inflict very low damage. And then you start again running away until the map is over.
To make this gameplay workable the damage and the reloadtime had to be massively increased (Lets say 4-5 times, DPS stays the same). You Fire and during reload you are building up distance. But with the low damage, chaos inflicts at the moment, this tactic not gonna work.
In my opinion, chaos is in a very bad shape at the moment. I have played Ranked Battles several times and lost almost all, except 1 game against Chaos. This is probably because I am bad, but certainly also because Chaos (except Macro Brawling Fleets) is in bad shape. The reasons from my point of view:
- too little damage with lances, especially burst damage. I think the damage should be substantially increased and in return the fire rate reduced. The DPS could stay the same.
- the detection range for stealthed ships is too low or there are too few possibilities for survey. The cool down for Augur Probe should be reduced to 1/4 (45sec.) Survey is the most important thing for chaos kiting fleet and at the moment there too few options, exept of immediately destroyed escorts.
- Ordnance is too weak. Would be great if Splitting Carrier Ordnance would be possible.
- Speed difference is too low. Almost every fraction is able to keep up.
I hate the extrem short detection range for cloaked ships. It would be really nice if there would be a way to split fighters for a wide area survey. It would also be nice if every bay has its own cooldown.
Big carriers overdo in scouting, because all of it's fighters (bays) are flying all together to 1 spot. A real waste of resources.
Especially chaos is very dependant on survey to use it's superior weapon range. At the moment you have to use several smaller carriers or escorts.
I would appreciate the possibility of splitting the ordnance of carriers. For example if you have a carrier with 4 bays, you can command your fighter to 4 different locations, like for better scouting. Or if the target is nearly destroyed you splitt your bombers, so you don't have to waste whole volley of your carrier for a job a single squad could have done.
First I have to avow that I love to play chaos lance/carrier builds, but at the current state they are not really working. As I suggested in an other post one way to make lances viable would be to make reload also function with lances.
Reload: Imo reload is a damage dealer stance, the +66% of dps is awesome. The stance of choice for destroying hulls.
Lock On: First I would reduce the crit chance of lances to it's prior value. Then I suggest to increase the bonus of lock on for criting to 200% or 300%. With that change we would get a real stance for criticals.
With this changes you would have a real choice between brute damage or surgical strikes.