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posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

@geryon said in CCL 22 and 23 will trial 2 minute turns.:

During the trial COL will be 3 minutes.

COL season 22 is still 2 minutes please fix asap.

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@dode74 said in CCL 22 and 23 will trial 2 minute turns.:

I already mentioned them. That you consider them "not insurmountable" or that the admin team should double their workload is neither here nor there.

I am not sure yet why we do have to suffer the disruption of the CCL the admin team / you propose. Admins/you have not shown any solid data based evidence that there may be a problem at all with the 3 minutes timer to begin with.

The very least one can expect is that they/you spend a reasonable amount of time doing a reasonable amount of due diligence and invest reasonable time in justifying a test of any kind in CCL (including for example using COL, which already runs at 2 min, as a lab). As opposed to disrupting a large number of players while they/you twiddle their thumbs by simply changing a timer and "collecting data" to "undisclosed metrics" for 2 seasons, just to see what happens.

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

@dode74 said in CCL 22 and 23 will trial 2 minute turns.:

Again, there are numerous differences between CCL and COL which suggest it's not a sound environment to gather suitable data from.

Again, which ones?

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

@dode74 said in CCL 22 and 23 will trial 2 minute turns.:

So you think the admin team are going to effectively double their workload rather than trialling the change in an existing league? Good luck with that.

(Just a reminder, I'm not an admin)

Well I sincerely hope that they do not intend to disrupt a large number of players in ccl without themselves being disrupted at all in the process.

In both cases admins are going to have to spend/waste additional time. Much better employed in extracting data from col which already runs at 2 min than disrupting ccl without proper justification imho.

(Who are the admins actually btw?)

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

@dode74 said in CCL 22 and 23 will trial 2 minute turns.:

Longer-lived teams, different reasons to play (e.g. no playoff), more concessions (and therefore noise - ~22% vs ~45% COL vs CCL last I looked), fewer AFKs (because people just concede).

But hey, if you think there is something useful you can mention from the data available in COL then please, let the admins know!

None of those issues you mention seem particularly insurmountable. You can replicate ccl structure in col including play offs and concession admin etc. In other words instead of spending (wasting?) the admin team time in disrupting ccl, spend your time rather in col, which already has a 2 min structure, so to get some meaningful data out of it. And then we talk.

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

@dode74 said in CCL 22 and 23 will trial 2 minute turns.:

@viajero said in CCL 22 and 23 will trial 2 minute turns.:

the criteria is not made public and can be manipulated to suit whatever the organizers want

It won't be. I'm aware of the criteria and am against the change. There will be no variation away from those by the admin team. That said, if people have ideas for suitable metrics then please be forthcoming.

Why would I want to propose any metric to measure a change that has no justification at all to begin with?

COL has been running at 2 minutes for ages. If you wanted 2 min related data you need to look no further. Use COL as your lab if you want and play with it, then show us what you find. But disrupting CCL without any documented evidence to justify it is probably not the right approach.

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

Shame this change has been initiated without a shred of clear evidence there is a problem with 3 minutes in the first place. Even justifying the test period of 2 (!!!) seasons as a way to "gather data" would be beyond ridiculous when COL has already been playing at 2 minutes for ages. And especially when the criteria is not made public and can be manipulated to suit whatever the organizers want. This all means at least one less player here for CCL I am afraid.

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

"So, wouldn't it make sense to just start two CCLs, one with 3 minute turns (i.e. same as now) and one with 2 minute turns simultaneously"

@ugh There is already a PC based "2 min CCL". It is called Champions Open League (COL).

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

I think I must insist that those proposing the change show some actual data set that demonstrates conclusively that there is a problem at all with 3 minutes in the first place. Otherwise the change would not have any actual basis to justify it, other than a straw poll with a few hundred votes, and not really very representative (also straw polls can be easily manipulated with multiple IP based votes etc).