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posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

@LazyFocus said in Every Champion Ladder without changes is a wasted season:

Bullshit.

Oh, hi again crazyguy_co! I was sorry to see you got yourself banned via that other thread, but I'm glad you're demonstrating why forum bans are better left as a threat than used as an actual moderation tool.

@LazyFocus said in Every Champion Ladder without changes is a wasted season:

Tabletop tournaments are not played with rez most of the time. Maybe in your carebear leagues they are, but in the majority of places they are played the right way.

Rez is actually part of the standard NAF tournament setup. While it is true that not ALL tournaments are rez, it is very much a standard for the serious tournaments.

@LazyFocus said in Every Champion Ladder without changes is a wasted season:

playing with rez is just handing them free wins, much the same way that playing with your suggested TV+ full rules is just favoring players who want to injure and kill, not win games.

You mean except for the fact that the full TVPlus rules involve rez? We went over this on the other thread.. are you so desperate to pretend you were aware that TVPlus rating matchmaking has been in place for over a year that you actually made a new account to continue your backpedaling?

I admire the dedication!

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Yes voodoo, i called them lazy and liars after the all but admitted to laziness and lied. So i turned toxic in response to the useless responses dode has offered. When you have a mod literally lying and using "would take effort" as an excuse to not fix problems, there is little left to do but rant.

You started attacking people the second anyone disagreed with you. The things you said were not based in fact, and that was what was pointed out to you, and immediately you started saying they were liars and inventing statistics, etc.

As I said in an earlier reply, you seem to draw no distinction between moderators and developers, and you are attacking moderators (or... anyone, really) for not taking steps that only the developers are capable of. Regardless of that, your demand is that they allow people to concede more in CCL, and that's simply a house rule in the environment - you get 5 concessions for any reason before you're shown the door for the season. They don't need a good reason for house rules... they're the commissioner's choice.

The concession rate in COL borders on the insane... more than 50% of matches end in concession. CCL is meant as an environment where people who want to play serious BB can escape that garbage... so you're pissing into the wind advocating for allowing a larger number of concessions there for whatever reasons you might have, good or bad.

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Of course you've yet to post anything that didn't include insults, which is pretty impressively bad moderation too. Does the fact that neither of us have had posts deleted not prove the laziness?

I don't think it has to do with "includes" insults so much as it has to do with "excludes" anything but insults. I do so enjoy insulting people whom I feel have it coming, but if there's an actual topic to be discussed it's never exclusively what you'll find in my posts. You, on the other hand, have been hurling personal slander around quite liberally, while not bothering to include any solid facts to back up your claims.

Personally, I disagree with deleting posts for anything other than, say, spam (advertising, large walls of gibberish, etc). There's little point in having a medium for communication if you're not going to let people communicate, and people communicate in a wide variety of ways. If you want them to only communicate the things you approve of in the way you approve of you might as well just have a blog instead.

@Ioelet said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Nobody in this thread lied about anything. There are just different opinions. Some of them are justified by statistical samples and some of them are "justified" by nothing else than a guy who writes "I know the truth - stop lying" again and again.

People are entitled to their own opinions but they are not entitled to their own facts... and this thread is quite firmly in the realm of disputing facts.

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

@Ioelet said in Champion Ladder grievance:

If he is a bad to average coach who loses many games while slowly gaining SPP, he is more likely to play against other teams who are bad coached while slowly gaining SPP. Since "only bashing" is a strategy that rarely makes you win the game but high armour + SPP for casualties increases your TV, maybe he actually enters a TV+ area with a significant amount of badly-played chaos and nurgle teams. They can't impove from there, because they lose all the time but don't get worse since their TVs still slowly inrease.

Actually, if you go back and read his original post, his issue is that he want's to be allowed to concede more than CCL permits and is using the abundance of bash as his excuse for that.

While TV matching does tend to create a TV zone where bash is predominant, TVPlus matching does not create such a zone - instead, it's still high TV demographics that will be mostly bash, but primarily in COL not CCL where there simply isn't enough time for them to really accumulate. The main issue in CCL is that as the season wears on fewer people queue up for a game, which means the matchmaking criteria has less and less effect as compared to "whomever bothers to show up".

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Not the version of it Voodoo is pushing in another thread so vehemently.

Tsk, now who's being dishonest? You specifically said this was about team damage from an over-abundance of bash teams, while "the version Voodoo is pushing in another thread" is rez based and thus immune to attrition/damage issues. You're just backpedaling because you didn't realize TVPlus was already being used ;)

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Also I'd argue the version of it being used is exactly why late joining teams are suffering. The fact that you continue to insist that the field is level for someone who joined the ladder midseason if they play enough games is such lazy mod work.

Late-joining teams suffer in CCL because they're joining an environment where most teams start early, making their potential opponents almost all significantly more developed than they are. Their issue is low pool sizes, and that's an issue that cannot be solved via matchmaking criteria. We can't match people with similar teams when there are no similar teams queued to play.

Here's a crazy thought.. howsabout you go download the data and then you can argue from something other than ignorance?

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

I've been playing since the late 90's, I'm not exactly new. I am new to the toxicity of this forum though, and I am new to having mods this lazy.

The funny thing being that you think it's other people being "toxic". I'd place a pretty big wager that any impartial 3rd party reading this thread would immediately flag you as the problem poster.

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

@Ioelet said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Maybe there even is some statistical bias where in specific times for specific TVs you face significantly more bashing teams than everyone else

In COL there will be at higher TV levels... in CCL it is primarily a question of when you play during a season. Early on people are fielding new teams and are mostly playing hard to win as part of the qualification process... those teams are interested in winning, developing, and avoiding excessive damage so they aren't as likely to get into a dust-up just for the sake of bashing.

Later in the season activity decreases as the best teams are already in the top ranked positions and don't have any reason to play more games and risk any damage... other teams know they arent going to qualify and either stop playing or start playing more casually. You may see more bash teams looking to just bash but its more a factor of the pools being smaller that you wind up playing against them.

In CCL if you're a high performing coach playing a high performing roster you're much less likely to face bash in early to mid season play simply because bash rosters are lower performing rosters... TVPlus is most likely to pair the high performers with one another when possible. At the end of the day, though, its pool sizes that prevent matchmaking from making perfect matches.

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Tell me again how thats 10%? Want to make up any more statistics?

You're the one making up statistics - you either base your "numbers" on generalizing from your personal anecdotes, or you pick tiny samples... and you're holding them up against numbers from the complete data which is tens of thousands of matches per season.

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

It's especially funny how in another thread VoodooMike was complaining about you guys using make believe statistics for decisions, only to accept this make believe statistic without complaint.

You're not much for reading comprehension. I never accused them of making up statistics, I scoffed at the insinuation that BB2 development decisions were data-driven. If you don't understand the difference then maybe you should stick to the random insults.

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

TV+ matchups, which I pray you guys never listen to Voodoomike and implement, would make the problem even worse. Those chaos kill squads that lose because they just want to kill? they'd get matched against increasingly lower and lwoer tv teams as they lost, able to cause more and more damage. So at the very least it'd be good to know no one is listening to his retarded idea about how to fix matchmaking by actually making it worse,

Heh, TVPlus matchmaking has been in place since May 2016. Plenty of time for us to collect data on its effect, and the effect has been less biased matches, lower rates of concession, and lower TV differences for new teams. If you mean "full TVPlus" which has not been implemented well... that's rez based so theres not much effect that "killer teams" could have.

@dode74 said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Feel free to point out where the pause button is mentioned, please - in fact, please find the rule about not using the pause button in BB1 anywhere. Now, it's possible that made it into the BB2 rules in error, but it most certainly wasn't due to a failure to update the rules from BB1.

It's most likely that it was simply the only example anyone could think of from the history of Cyanide's BB franchise. If you don't give people an example they tend to invent things and launch these grievance campaigns over things they've simply decided to be true.

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Man you really are poison to this community, I thought they were exaggerating

Well hey, at least we're adding a new adjective to the pot... lazy, ignorant, and dishonest were getting a bit worn out. Perhaps if you weren't so hell-bent on attacking everyone you and the nameless "they" would have an easier time making a case for just how terrible I am.. ;)

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

yeah the author of bboracle that ruined the first game doesn't get to talk about "fair" without someone pointing it out. Hypocrite much?

Don't worry, sweetums... everyone knows that your problems stem entirely from the universe being out to get you through the lazy and ignorant machinations of the rest of us. Though really, if there's one thing that BBOracle was not, it was lazy ;)

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Also I love how you are allowed to just insult cause you agree with the mods, but I have to be "civil"

I know, right? I'm so complex... in one paragraph I ruined the game, in the next I'm a crusader for the status-quo enjoying special privileges for my unfailing support of the establishment.

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Also, given that we have millions of ways we've invented to create buffers against winter, from clearing roads, to heated houses, your analogy sucks... by this logic, the mods should be finding ways to lessen the damage.

They did find a way to lessen the effects - they said "here's a bug some people use... our houserule is that it's ok to do during qualification matches but not during tournament matches"... because "mods" are not "devs" and have no control over the functioning of the program itself. Each of the people you're sitting there insulting is NOT a BB2 developer and has no ability to fix bugs in the program... so they figure out ways to roll with them.

Winter is still a bitch, and we still keep trying to think up new ways to deal with it... but it's not within our power to simply do away with it, so whining that it continues to exist is a waste of everyone's time. Spend your time thinking up new usable solutions instead of complaining that other people aren't thinking up new solutions fast enough for your liking.

If your issue is with the devs then speak to them... stop lashing out at everyone BUT them like some sort of pouty child.

posted in BB2 - General Discussion read more

@ProxiWinther-Rex said in [Legendary Edition] Overview Thread:

I own BB2 + all DLC except Chaos Dwarfs
So I would need to buy official expansion only?
Or do I have to buy CD's first?

I'm starting to feel like you don't trust me :(

posted in Champion Ladder PC read more

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

You can't have your cake and eat it to, you either allow coaches to concede to save their teams, without risking their ability to compete, or you find a solution to the griefing. Anything else is laziness.

You know what's really lazy and ignorant? The fact that jaywalking is illegal but winter isn't. I mean c'mon, winter is responsible for way, way more damage and loss of life than jaywalking, but they let winter happen every year while handing out tickets for the other thing. Either abolish winter or let me cross the street whenever I damned well please... you can't forbid one but not the other!

...or.. I guess they can, and our objection is very low on anyone's give-a-shit list. Excuse me, I need to go cry. If you need to borrow a cry-hankie, let me know cg.

posted in BB2 - General Discussion read more

@Sir_Twist said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

To Simulate League Play, Match Making should be be handled with the number of Matches both Teams have played.

Simulates WHAT league? Most leagues allow new teams in after they begin - even when they run on seasons they allow people to either create new teams at the start of a new season, or allow new people to join then. They then schedule them for the season, or allow them to challenge each other.

@Sir_Twist said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

For Example If Team A has played 30 Games it should only Match to a Team that has + - 10% the same Numbers of Games played. In this Example to a Team which has between 27 - 33 Games played.

And if there are no such teams? I mean, if every matching pool had like... a million teams in it then you might be able to go that route, but most pools have 6 or less teams. Want to guess at how often those 6 teams will all be within 10% of each other's games played?

Furthermore, games played was found to be a miserably bad metric for predicting the outcome of matches - worse than TV by quite a bit - meaning it is certainly not going to be useful in creating fair and balanced matches on its own.

@Sir_Twist said in Will 'money over 150k added to TV' be optional in LE?:

In Addition, there is still a Plague by a lot of Players that will quit the Match immediatly when the Apo is used or it looks they may not win a game - there should be an option to quit a Matched Team if the Opponent has quit more than 10% or 20% of his games before the End of a Match without Penalty. This should Lead also to more Matches played till the End of Game.

Giving people the ability to quit games without penalty will lead to more games being completed? I'm not sure I follow the logic here. I assume you mean it'll lead to FEWER completed matches overall, but a higher percentage of matches that DO actually make it to turn 1 being completed. I'm sure it would... it'd just result in fewer completed matches overall since you'd be dramatically increasing quit rates, and dramatically diminishing the number of matches that ever get started.


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