Business Toxicity - at several points Spintires encountered some hiccups and accusations started being thrown:
- that Oovee took Pavel's game and didn't pay him according to their contract;
- that Pavel snuck in some code to sabotage the game;
Multiple things. Anyway, we're past that now.
Now we all want MR1 to be properly fixed so that we can look towards MR2 with more confidence. Alternatively we won't say no to Spintires rejuvenated with more and better features and content.
@Unster Mudrunner also has better gamepad controls, at least for now. Anyway, I see you're active on Spintires forums so keep at it - if you can at least get that game improved with player feedback it'll still be a win.
But still, I mean, we get a game that is almost a whole niche by itself, has no competition for several years and most of its potential has been squandered away in business politics and easy to notice bugs that remain for months on end.
I think we were all hoping that Mudrunner would break free of whatever toxicity came out of the previous business relationship between development and publishers but it's deja vu already.
Worst (or best) of it all, Oovee, who weren't exactly the champions of communication, are starting to be rather active in forums and use community feedback to improve Spintires. Simultaneously, Pavel's new team at Focus is revving down on the updates and community interaction.
Can't we just get a proper Spintires/Mudrunner game with only minor bugs and annoyances if any? Is that too much to ask after 5 years of development across two games that can only rely on a faithful community to survive?
There's been a new update for the Spintires beta. Simply put it's now beating MudRunner in several key aspects:
The graphics appear sharper in tone and there's little to no annoying level-of-detail switching for environmental objects. You can tell where Spintires starts to draw foliage but then the foliage doesn't swap details as it does with Mudrunner; As a result the visual experience is smoother in Spintires;
The sounds of the trucks are more defined and less repetitive in Spintires;
Mud doesn't clump together in huge blobs on tires in Spintires;
The automatic gearbox just works;
I didn't otherwise spend a lot of time testing for difference but the way this is going in a couple more updates the core of Spintires is going to be better than Mudrunner. Obviously Mudrunner still has more content, has a better UI and some better truck models here and there, but ... also has more bugs, some of which reported a long time ago ...
Come on, Mudrunner team! I know you can release another patch or two until MR2 to fix these remaining issues. I know you can at least try and make Mudrunner the better of the two Spintires games.
Do you really want Spintires: The Original Game to catch up to your product and surpass it? That will be bad marketing by the time MR2 shows up.
Good map indeed and I also agree that limiting maps to only having loaded carts (there was also the 'Desert' on workshop with loaded trailers but for trucks) and/or no garages limits their potential.
Ideally for each map we could change a few options to have more flexibility:
-choose the amount of lumber points per mill ( 8 - 12 -16);
-choose whether we have lumber kiosks, scavenge or preloaded trailers;
-choose whether we have garages enabled or not and how many in maps with multiple garages;
I feel that these options would greatly increase the replay value and we wouldn't need to change to a specific map if we wanted a specific way to play.
While MudRunner 2 is going to have a different gameplay when it comes to loading stuff, I can't help but think how much better it would be for MudRunner 1 if for each map we could customize a few options:
- choose the amount of lumber points per mill ( 8 - 12 -16);
- choose whether we have lumber kiosks, scavenge or preloaded trailers;
- choose whether we have garages enabled or not and how many in maps with multiple garages;
I feel that these options would greatly increase the replay value and we wouldn't need to change to a specific map if we wanted a specific way to play.
For instance this new DLC maps is very good in itself but with no garages, only one lumber mill and only preloaded trailers it's done and over very quickly and there's little point in returning to it. Also, there's little point in bringing anything over the 1 star vehicles since you couldn't attack the trailers to it.
@xenorad What about the Chevy Bison, is it still missing the front suspension model? Any improvements in mud, visually or physics-wise?
The Bison looks unchanged. So does the Western Star with the missing front half-shafts. I didn't notice a change in the mud. The streetlights still remain on throughout the day and logs still do not collide with trees.
Looks like most issues already reported remain.
I played a bit with the new map. Here are my impressions:
It's a good map in design with plenty of hill climbing. Overall it's not that difficult though there are a few tricky bits. That being said the fact that you don't have a garage and instead you need to find and deliver 4 small log carts to one lumber mill means that it's a short map. With some fumbling I got around to it in about 1 hour and 43 minutes;
The trucks are good (is the Chevy supposed to be FWD when not in 4x4?), though in my play-through I didn't really need to use the GMC much on this new map. Initially I was surprised to see it's only one star as compared to the other 4x6 USA trucks, but for this one the diff lock is not permanent so it needs manual engaging;
The F150 now has a front driveshaft. Hurray;
The USA cranes still have no lights. Not hurray;
Texture degradation still occurs, it's just a matter of how much you play a certain map. Also switching from a map to the proving grounds or simply exiting to the menu and returning increases the changes of it to trigger. I also noticed that once it triggers if you come back to that map in a new game then all visual representation of damage on trucks is gone. The damage still remains as points, but the trucks look completely undamaged. Most definitely not hurray;
The automatic transmission is still finicky and (almost) always shifts to 1st. The only way it doesn't do that is if you get an empty truck and coast on level pavement and even then it's 5-4-3-2-1 in as many seconds and then you're back to 1st. The original Spintires (with the new beta) does this better;
All in all I like the expansion, and it's good that some bugs also got fixed, but the main disappointment is that the more serious of issues still remain after many months. We already have a way of introducing mods to the game. These free DLCs are most welcome but not if they take away dev effort on fixing bugs. The focus should be on fixing the game first and then DLCs as second. Since these DLCs are free it's even more baffling as to why they take precedence over bug fixing.
@unster "They don't have to listen to us and we don't have to buy their product."
I like that statement but I don't know whether that puts us on equal footing or implies there's an advantage to one side over the other. Several years from now hindsight will give that answer.
I get it. MudRunner isn't that important. At the end of the day there are multiple things that take precedence.
But we don't lose anything by trying to put a bit of pressure to get our woes heard. It's the least we could do if we're still here.
If i took a Truck right now and drove it up a hill keeping momentum in the throttle, then i would 9/10 most likely not downshift with an automatic transmission. But the opposite happens in mudrunner.
In real life when climbing a hill rpm lowers in a decreasing fashion. Basically unless you're really in too high of a gear the vehicle will find a way to go across the hill, even if it's struggling.
As far as MR is concerned it's not even that much of a problem to figure it out. You don't have to do complicated calculations on the fly to figure out exactly which gear you need to downshift to. You could just apply a simple rule that you downshift 2 gears every time (except for when you're in second), then restart the calculation. Provided that the gears ratios are spaced out in a linear fashion you would just need to figure out the moment when you need to trigger the downshift and apply that regardless of current gear.
Of course, this would be the most basic way of tackling this. A more advanced way would be to do on the fly gear reduction calculations so that the gear you drop reaches a minimum amount of rpm.
@unster - I read the clarification on the Oovee forums. I don't know what to say, but it's very strange that they waited so long before coming up with this. It almost sounds like made up stuff to try and restart SpinTires and bring MudRunner down a notch, but I just don't know.
Since I don't know the real truth I don't wish to take side and generally I'm on the opinion that too much politics ruins things. Competition on the other hand is good. For instance the new SpinTires beta does some things better than Mudrunner (not limited to bugs only), even without the original devs on board. That is troublesome.
I liked SpinTires a lot and I like Mudrunner even better, but it has been 5 years and that makes me think. For one, this is a very loyal following the game has gathered, regardless of iteration. And for a game which traditionally was plagued by a lack of communication from devs and publishers alike and of not that frequent updates - well that' saying something. That something is potential. Potential is very precious and it's a real pity to waste. People stuck around hoping that that potential would bare proper fruit. But 5 years later it just doesn't add up. And it's a real pity that a game which basically has no equal in its niche can't be all that it can be.
From what I've seen this community doesn't really ask a lot. They just ask for a few much needed improvements and the ability to work on themselves via mod tools to bring extra content.
The general consensus is that the Americal Wilds DLC was extremely welcome and so is this next free one. But - it doesn't supplant the fact that some work is still needed for the game.
How can we all get together and in one voice ask that some things are taken care of before we get to MudRunner 2?
There's a saying which goes that about 20% of your customers produce 80% of your sales. We are the 20%, we're here on this forum. We should be heard should we drive 80% of sales for MudRunner 2.
One huge pet peeve is the behaviour of the automatic transmission which always downshifts to first and makes you slow down much more than needed. I just checked SpinTires new beta and there the automatic transmission downshifts properly allowing you to keep as much momentum as possible.
Otherwise I second the weird traction on pavement. I think they just made it so that weaker trucks can't pull big loads uphill but they should have just made the engines stall instead (yes, even in automatic and first gear - so that you would need to get a running start before reaching the hill).
I would also like to see maybe a small slider to control the points needed for each lumber mill, on choosing a map screen. Something like 8-12-16 would be nice. That should also allow the community to make interesting maps without having to add 5+ lumber mills to compensate.
From what I'm seeing MR2 will feature quite a bit of a gameplay change so it would be nice if we could still go back to MR1 for the 'old-school' style. Of course, we could only do that if it were properly finished first.
If the resurrection of SpinTires pushes Pavel and the team to still work on Mudrunner a bit more I'd say we're good.
I for one still have a couple of major peeves with MudRunner : the fact that for nVidia cards at least texture quality decreases as you play along and that the automatic gearbox always downshifts to first.
Others still have the following gripes: no front driveshaft for the F150, tire tracks aren't saved, logs you carry don't collide with trees, traction is sometimes a bit wonky on various surfaces (tires on fully loaded trucks spin on pavement).
Even if SpinTires won't get that far with new updates, the fact that Mudrunner has bugs SpinTires doesn't, doesn't really bode well.
Please, let's just all let the team know that we're still expecting a bit more from them before we go out and buy Mudrunner 2. And we're not talking extra content like the upcoming DLC (which I'm really looking forward to) but fixing some still big issues that remain in the game.
@Forces - Yes, it happens in SinglePlayer.
Another way to look out for it is to check out the compass at the top of the screen. If you keep an eye on it as you play you may notice that while it's pixelated from the start it turns a bit blurry after the issue happens.
I think it does happen even if you stay with one truck and don't bring up the map but it takes longer. Also I've noticed that sometimes you can have two trucks side-by-side and one will have the lower resolution textures and the other not.
The only way I can explain it is that there's some sort of memory cache that fills up quicker or slower and then reduces the quality of textures.
It'd be a true pity if this issue isn't patched for Mudrunner. Once you know it it's difficult to ignore and I haven't played Mudrunner as much since hoping it will be patched.
I do wish to keep playing until MR2 appears and even afterwards so it'd would be great if it's fixed.
Update: As of the Oldtimers DLC this issue is still actual.
For me this is still an ongoing issue. I even changed by motherboard and reinstalled Windows with all the drivers and such.
If there is still one more DLC for Mudrunner then there should be at least one more patch.
I'd like to kindly ask whether this issue is going to be fixed as it's quite a big one.
For reference here are the new specs:
16 GB DDR 4
Windows 10 Pro with the latest build
latest nVidia drivers : 425.31
While an update for the original Spintires wouldn't be unwelcome I can't help but feel that it would be too little and too late.
In any case we'll have to wait an see. If MR gets another DLC and fixes the remaining bugs then MR2 and Spintires2 or whatever it will be called if it ever happens can just duke it out for the players' attention.
Let's not forget about the front driveshaft for the Ford F-150.
I do think these should be fixed prior to Mudrunner 2. Let's just hold our ground and keep asking until it's done.
Regardless of what anyone might think, Mudrunner is a niche game mostly driven by a loyal community. If the community stands together then everyone will benefit.
@Iyagovos - Thank you. Please persist.
If Mudrunner gets patched to a level where only minor/if any bugs remain then we can have a proper conclusion and accept Mudrunner 2 as an evolution.
On the other hand, if Focus Home Interactive leave glaring bugs still unpatched then Mudrunner 2 is going to have to fight an uphill battle. Let's not forget that it's a niche title very much dependent on loyal customers. Those customers will remember their disappointment with Mudrunner 1 and influence others.
@Dvoryaninoff - There's a pretty nasty bug with the texture happening in that after playing the game for a while the textures are being lowered in quality. This is still actual as of the December 27th patch. Can you please take a look (https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/31515/low-resolution-logs-pc/4) and raise awareness with the dev team? It's significant and should affect a large number of players under the right circumstances.
I'm not sure that it would be a good idea and I will explain why.
Personally whenever I get a new modded truck from Steam Workshop or whatever I first test it out on the Proving Grounds. On many occasions I decide that I don't like it and simply quit the game and delete it.
Now if whenever you quit the Proving Grounds the game will save your trucks and then you delete one of them - what would happen when you return?
I must confess that I never loaded a regular game map with a truck, deleted it afterwards and then tried to continue playing that map, but at least for the Proving Grounds I do appreciate that it's a reset.
Sure, it's a bit annoying when you lose trucks you'd rather keep testing, but it seems safe for testing trucks you might not keep afterwards.
I do know that you can remove trucks from the Proving Grounds using the tools provided but maybe you either forget or if you are a new player might not know about it.
All of the above being said, if you are presented with a dialogue option whenever you quit the Proving Grounds asking whether to save and warning of deleting the trucks before reloading them I'm all for it, why not.
There are a couple of rather important graphics issues that are present after this patch with an nVidia card at least.
In game SSAO produces artifacts (lines) on vertical surfaces;
- get a Chevy Bison, Freightliner or Western Star and check the vertical side of the hood -> you'll see the artifacts;
Under certain circumstances texture quality decreases and remains low until the whole games is restarted. This is noticeable for trucks (easiest to check is to observe the writing on the side of American trucks), logs and roads but can happen for other textures as well. Reportedly this happens as you play along however you can trigger it on demand via two methods:
- going from a loaded map to the main menu and then back to that loaded map;
- while in a loaded map setting a lower resolution than the native one; returning to the native resolution doesn't fix it.
For issue number two I've left a more detailed description as a Bug report under the thread 'Low-resolution logs' (https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/31515/low-resolution-logs-pc). Check it out please.
I can confirm that this is an issue, with the latest December 27th patch and an nVidia card (1080Ti).
There are two ways you can intentionally trigger the lower resolution textures. The third could be unintentionally by just playing the game for a while.
All video settings on high, native resolution and a truck with visible writing on its side (Freighliner, Chevy Bison or Western Star 6900xd) since this is the easiest way to check the texture quality.
Replication method 1:
- start Mudrunner and have it load a map directly (do this by quitting from a map rather than the Main Menu);
- check the writing on the side of your truck -> the writing is clearly distinguishable;
- go back to Main Menu (exit your map) and then go to Single Player and click to continue (reload) your current map;
- check the writing on the side of your truck again -> the writing is blurred/(all) textures are now of lower quality.
Replication method 2;
- start Mudrunner and have it load a map directly -> the writing on the side of your truck is clearly distinguishable;
- go to Settings and set the resolution to a lower one;
- go back to your game and check the writing on the side of your truck -> again the writing is blurred/(all) textures are now of lower quality;
- go to Settings again and set your resolution back to native level -> the blurred writing and thus the lower resolution textures remain.
- seems to be harder to trigger on the Proving Grounds however if the issue has already been triggered on another map then it appears here as well;
- for a brand new map changing the resolution doesn't trigger the issue however if you do nothing on the new map then quit to the main menu and then reload it changing the resolution again does trigger the issue;
- indeed there seems to be no way to fix it rather than outright restarting the game.
All in all we'd appreciate an update from a moderator or dev that they' acknowledged this issue and that they'd (try to) work on it. I think it's significant enough to warrant fixing for Mudrunner. New players may not know about it and just think that Mudrunner has bad textures and that's just it.
Ultimately it seems the issue also triggers by just playing a map for some amount of time. During my testing this is what I've found.
5k resolution (nVidia DSR) - load a game and play around with a truck for around 4 minutes -> issue visible on truck;
1440p (my native) - load a game and play with a truck for around 7 minutes -> issue not visible on truck but change to another truck and issue visible there/ change back to your truck and the textures are still fine. At this point either play around some more with your initial truck or change between them several more times and the issue will appear.
1080p - load a game and play with a truck for around 10 minutes -> issue not visible on truck but change to another truck and issue visible there/ change back to your truck and the textures are still fine. At this point either play around some more with your initial truck or change between them several more times and the issue will appear.
So while playing the game the texture quality/resolution downgrade is delayed depending on resolution. The truck you started playing with seems to be the last affected by the issue but eventually it will be affected anyway.
Considering the difference in quality between the original and the downgraded textures at this point I consider this a pretty big issue. If you guys wish to have any hope of having good sales for Mudrunner 2 you'd better fix this for Mudrunner 1.
The community may tolerate a few of the smaller bugs but this is a big one.
Anyway I do hope our local Community Manager or Pavel sees this. Let's please fix this game first before moving on to Mudrunner 2.