Terrible Current state of Machine gunners

Currently, I feel the MG's have no distinct role in this game, other than it being a rifle with a larger ammo capacity . The real MGs are heavy, but accurate, high rate of fire beasts, which are difficult to use without being set up on a bipod. To balance this out, many games has opted to make them have either bad accuracy, high recoil, or less damage, which are all not at all true to the real life counter parts. If this game wants to portray itself as a somewhat "authentic" (since no game ever is) experience I think it is worth while to balance things the way they should be. I think the game already has all the mechanics to balance them out as well as giving the MGs a proper distinct role, which is different from a rifleman with more ammo. My suggestions are as follows:

  1. increase aim-down-sights time: currently, you can ADS at an instant with an MG. But these things are heavy hunk of metal, most of the weight held with your left hand alone. This will ensure the MGs are difficult to run and gun with.

  2. increase weapon sway, especially if you are holding it for a long time, or out of breath from running. This is just common sense. You can't hold that thing with your one hand for very long, it will get shaky. In fact, even a light rifle is difficult to hold steady for more than a few seconds.

  3. increase cartridge count from 1 basic +1 for each ammo vest level to 2 basic with +1 or +2 for ammo vest level. This will make sure that you can actually suppress the enemy with sufficient fire. However, since there is no over heating or "change barrel" mechanic in insurgency, which is why most MG users don't constantly spray fire, I guess the accuracy of the weapon can decrease due to prolonged fire to balance things out. (Or I guess NWI can add a feature for over heating MGs)
    Also, if there are more ammo carried, make them slower, so that they are not running around like sonic and encourage them to place their weapons properly.

  1. I'd say reduce recoil, but from this beta branch, it doesn't seem to have crazy recoil like the last one. However, I still would prefer it to have a little less recoil and more weapon sway for these weapon if possible. As they are bigger guns firing intermediate rounds, meaning less recoil, but difficult to hold meaning more weapon swaying.

Edit: now that I've just played with it, I think the bipoded recoil is still ridiculous for both MGs, and the PKG just has terrible recoil in general. I wouldn't say to reduce too much of it, but reduce it enough to be noticeable. And for bipod recoil, it needs "quite a lot" of reducing.

These will ensure that the MGs has a distinct role and place within the game, rather than it being another run and gun riflemen.

TD;LR, make more penalties for run and gun play, give more incentive for stationary play and increase role as suppression.

P.S. more weapon variety for MG primaries are desperately needed. Perhaps RPK for insurgents and M60 for security?

last edited by io543

In regards to the ADS time in general,

The ADS time is currently a snap zoom level quick at the moment. And this results in what essentially is constant run and gun, and lasers are pointless (even though they were not that great in the first place, they are more useless now, since ADS is so fast, it is unnecessary all together)
It should be so for SMGs with holo scopes however, for scoped weapons, Iron sights it should be slower.
Furthermore, the weapon weight should also increase the ADS time as it is difficult to put on your shoulders and align. For instance, SMGs will be quicker to ADS than a LMG. Which SMGs are more akin to run and gun anyways, while LMGs are meant for stationary. Similarly towards DMRs as well, since they are heavy.

In addition, stance/running state should also affect ADS time. if you are standing still, then you already have the gun at your shoulders, so ADS shouldn't be affected too much, whereas if you are sprinting, the ADS penalty should increase.

I agree the recoil is pretty silly on these. I shouldn't need a compensator on top of the stock muzzle.
Less recoil, slow ADS and a large free zone (whatever its called where the gun strays around the screen before moving the players view)

So, I am hesitant to say anything here because I love running and gunning with the M249.

But I agree, right now there is no good reason to take an assault rifle if the machineguns are just big assault rifles.

The way I fixed it in Insurgency 2 was to modify the recoil patterns and sway on the stances. Bipod deployed got almost none, prone had a bit more, crouch a lot more, and from standing it was all over.

This made it harder to use as assault weapon, but great as a defense weapon, while maintaining the ability to panic fire close range while standing and be able to hit your target.

The main thing is that all these guns are so much more accurate than real life, so the need to have a machine gun suppress targets while riflemen take more careful aimed shots doesn't translate over directly.

But I think that if the bipod deployment was faster, and there was an incentive for a rifleman to stand by as an assistant gunner, it could bring a lot of gameplay options to the mix.

bumping this since it seems like it is still relavent

Suggestion:
*With this kind of firepower(100/200 rounds), the price of LMGs should be 10 supply points.
*Use the stamina system to limit running distance. Players who carry heavy gears/guns run out of stamina more easily.

@s925033 You do realize that in PvP you have like, 12 supply, right? I'd rather not spend that on buying the LMG itself.

Supply costs are a good way to balance weapons and attachments but they shouldn't be the only balancing factor.

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