Gun Distribution over classes

I think some of the guns that some classes get should be looked at, the easiest example would be an insurgent advisor and his ability to take the svd which is an absolute destroyer.

When the insurgent team can take up to 5 one-shot semi auto snipers and the security teams .308 assault rifle (mark 17) twoshots (while the lower calliber rifles like the m16 also twoshot), it really makes me wonder which team has the power here.

Also where are the security balaclavas?

The gunplay is completely broken and there's been no word they intend to even address it.

Insurgents get the FAL which behaves somewhat like a gun, in that it can have 30 bullets and each has the potential to kill somebody, although not the potential it should have. The SVD is worse than the FAL but the solid 2nd best gun currently ingame. Security gets airsoft guns. MP7 is useful at least...

last edited by Whitby

List of weapons that can 1-shot chest

INSURGENTS:

  1. TOZ (With majority pellets or slugs)
  2. Mosin
  3. SVD
  4. PKM
  5. FAL

SECURITY:

  1. M870 (Again, Majority Pellet or Slugs)
  2. M24
  3. MK14 EBR
  4. G3

SHARED:

  1. DShK

There is literally one less 1-shot weapon on security.

DIFFERENCES

  1. G3 is a little slower than the FAL= Easier Recoil / Ammo Management
  2. The MK14EBR is fully automatic, can take a vert grip or gripod, and has 10 more rounds than the SVD.
  3. Mosin vs M24 is a mixed bag. Mosin can do empty reload faster w/ stripper clips, M24 stays on target when cycling the bolt.
  4. The PKM might one-tap, but it kicks like a mule. M249 has twice the ammo, and a higher RPM.
  5. Shotguns are equal.

Notes:

  1. The MK17 is the CQB Variant with a reduced barrel length. Doesn't make much of a deal when we talk muzzle velocity, but in gameplay it means you can be much closer to objects, corners, and walls before weapon collision occurs. Good for really tight fighting where you still want a weapon with some oomph.
  2. Security weapons in general have a higher ROF and less horizontal recoil than most of the INS weapons. Exceptions exist here and there, with a few less ideal weapons on each side (Uzi / SKS / M16A2 on INS, Tariq / M16A4 / MK17 on SEC)
  3. Overall, Sec fares a LOT better in CQB thanks to the MK18 and M4 being bullet hoses with 200 extra RPM. They also do a lot better at longer range with the M16's accurate bursts, G3's lower recoil, and M24's ability to stay on target.
  4. INS fares a lot better in medium range thanks to a lot of weapons having great irons, controllable recoil, and they have some great budget pistol options.

Yes there are nuances to literally every weapon. Spend some points on your own OP weapon and get good aim.

last edited by Goat Walrus

@goat-walrus

Not sure what game you're playing. SCAR, G3 and M14 all fail to 1tap heavy armours in the chest. As such, the FAL is leagues above them due to its consistent performance.

MK18 is 2-3 hits to kill. Sec weapons might be super soakers, but Ins weapons are guns. I'd take a FAL in CQB over a MK18 any day. It takes 66%-50% less shots to kill somebody. Barrel length is nothing on that and the FAL rocks in full auto.

last edited by Whitby

@whitby said in Gun Distribution over classes:

@goat-walrus

Not sure what game you're playing. SCAR, G3 and M14 all fail to 1tap heavy armours in the chest. As such, the FAL is leagues above them due to its consistent performance.

MK18 is 2-3 hits to kill. Sec weapons might be super soakers, but Ins weapons are guns. I'd take a FAL in CQB over a MK18 any day. It takes 66%-50% less shots to kill somebody. Barrel length is nothing on that and the FAL rocks in full auto.

You mean just like how the FAL doesn't 1-tap heavy armor either?
The MK14 straight up has a higher RPM and Velocity than the FAL. On those stats alone MK14 > FAL in damage and mag dump potential, should we exclude extended mags.

Additionally, the G3 has better recoil stats than the FAL, and the MK14 EBR has nearly identical recoil stats to the FAL.

In regards to the SCAR, nowhere did I list it as a 1-hit kill. It's part of having the shorter barrel to move with less collision. Considering the 2-point cost outside of competitive, it sits right beside the SKS, another underwhelming inexpensive weapon. At least it's fully automatic.

In regards to the G3 and MK14 they do 1-tap light and no armor. You're right, I should've made the distinction to exclude heavy armor from this list, pretty much, with exception to the M24, Mosin, and SVD. In that regard the SVD is pretty powerful, but limited by a long barrel length, long reload, both partial and empty, and small mag, even with extended.

In regards for shot for shot potential, higher RPM is invaluable in CQB. While ordinarily it'll only take 1 shot for most 7.62x51mm weapons, if your target has heavy armor and YOU DON'T, you have hypothetically lost that gunfight with both parties having 100% accuracy in CQB, and shooting at the same time.

(Edit to add sources)
(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wW1geM1qloEf0lqcM0H19RPVwddkRUUHx2lkHGRsah4/edit#gid=1691132008)
(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15h0UQzelaOtMYWRQZwZgkAUFYNm8eEVmHaZrpQUsGVM/edit#gid=0)

last edited by Goat Walrus

@goat-walrus

You may wish to load up the game and do some testing. The listed stats on the UI menu aren't to be taken seriously. The FAL onetaps heavy armour, the others do not.

Your edit+sources are interesting in that they conflict slightly with our testing. However, your stats show the G3 won't even kill a lightly armoured target. Your stats clearly demonstrate the Ins team can be equipped far better with harder hitting, faster firing guns available on all the standard classes.

@whitby said in Gun Distribution over classes:

Your edit+sources are interesting in that they conflict slightly with our testing. However, your stats show the G3 won't even kill a lightly armoured target. Your stats clearly demonstrate the Ins team can be equipped far better with harder hitting, faster firing guns available on all the standard classes.

I'll agree and readily admit to incorrect information in regards to the G3. With a little testing at the shooting range, the stats in the second sourceI listed are correct, and I fucked up. It doesn't 1-tap light armor.

Now in regards to testing, I highly recommend using the firing range.

Allow me to provide the step-by-step instruction.

  1. Go to settings
  2. Go to Binds
  3. Go under "User Interface / HUD"
  4. Bind "Toggle Admin Menu" to whatever you're comfortable with.
  5. Start a local game
  6. Open admin console
  7. Go to "Levels"
  8. Go to "Farmhouse"
  9. Go to "Scenario_Farmhouse_Range"
  10. Load Map
  11. Open admin console
  12. Go to "Developer"
  13. Go to "Player"
  14. Go to "Give Weapon"
  15. Select desired weapon
  16. Open Admin Console
  17. Go to "Developer"
  18. Go to "AI"
  19. Click "Toggle AI NoTarget"
  20. Go to computer terminal next to ammo crate
  21. Press F
  22. Select "Enemy Squad"
  23. Profit

You have now generated an enemy squad that will not shoot at you. If you wish to stop the AI's approach, you can follow these steps.

  1. Open Admin Console
  2. Go to "Developer"
  3. Go to "AI"
  4. Click "Disable AI"

The AI will cease all action, including shooting at you if you failed to NoTarget them.

If you wish to test a weapon mod on your selected weapon, follow these steps.

  1. Open Admin Console
  2. Go to "Developer"
  3. Go to "Player"
  4. Click "Give Weapon Upgrade"
  5. Click desired weapon attachment.

Your weapon model may look a little jank, but any weapon sight added will fire on target.

Typically speaking, at least one heavy or light armored insurgent will spawn every 1 to 2 times you spawn a squad, but it's a bit of a crap shoot.

Using this method I just tested the FAL

It's a 2-shot to the chest against heavy armor.

last edited by Goat Walrus

Local bots have their own damage model entirely it appears. Tests vs them compared to vs humans in a private server give wildly differing results. (Unless this recently got fixed).

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