run & gun still here

Good work on the patch,

but this is still run and gun which is no fun, cod territory.

yes the bots are harder, but still

hardly any between points, I suspect you kill them off when the point is being capped, and thats why people run to next objective. great maps with hardly any action in unless near the point

you can fix the run and gun by disabling running or add a stamina like squad pubg etc, this would prevent all running all the time.

also don t kill the bots off, make players have to clear the waves before moving on.

nice work though

Movement is bad, slow (heavy carrier is useless now), ADS too slow (gives campers big advantage, you can't rush buildings at all now), i dunno guys, you just want to make milsim out of something that has potental to be fun. Thats why the OG insurgency didn't get playerbase it deserved, cause of some OG insurgency crybabies who want this game to be a camp-fest. And no, i don't play COD i'm from Europe.

@soutaa said in run & gun still here:

Movement is bad, slow (heavy carrier is useless now), ADS too slow (gives campers big advantage, you can't rush buildings at all now)

Do you mean you actually have to use tactics to assualt a building? 😉

@jensiii TACTICS 🦆 You see a guy (he's standing still shooting someone else), press mouse2 "Loading..." it brings up scope (he turns and starts shooting you) you're dead. It's ok for LMG's or snipers, but not for assault rifles with 1x 2x scopes, ffs, it's called assault rifle for a reason.

@soutaa so you just described a situation, where you moved inside a house, were not ready (=ADS on) and got killed because of it.

@soutaa Wow sounds like you actually have to use caution and can’t just charge the enemy COD style.

@soutaa said in run & gun still here:

Movement is bad, slow (heavy carrier is useless now), ADS too slow (gives campers big advantage, you can't rush buildings at all now), i dunno guys, you just want to make milsim out of something that has potental to be fun. Thats why the OG insurgency didn't get playerbase it deserved, cause of some OG insurgency crybabies who want this game to be a camp-fest. And no, i don't play COD i'm from Europe.

Stop being a battlefield kiddie then. Welcome to insurgency.

@lambda-unit OMG... All posts start with "I'm 5000h+ in insurgency" "Insurgency veteran here"
Fuck guys, i bought insurgency source long time ago, and i didn't like the freaking source engine TBH. So i didn't play it much, but why FFS you want this game to be exactly the same as source version? It didn't have any players (like 1000-1500 peak hours, saturdays/sundays) I have played competative games all my life, but this is like Squad wheelchair edition. Make it hardcore TTK but a little faster, smoother movement, faster ADS. Why do you mention BF? Whats next? Fortnite? PUBG? C'mon i know education in America is crap, but you can do better.

I think the point is we dont want the source we want what was good from the source and that was focused on teamplay and communication, not run and gun, which so far sandstorm seems to be moving in that direction, players can run too fast for too long. Bots are centred on the capture points.

simple fix disable running or add a stamina cost to it so you can only run for a short while, this would prevent people running to the next objective, it is NOT A RACE.

Make it two people to blow the objective if two alive, would prevent rambos.

there are many many others communtiry ideas that would help/.

I dont want sandstorm to be like cod that would kill the joy in it.

I kinda agree speed should be limited more,but not decreased,its okay now,but acceleration time should be a bit longer in order to get maximum speed when sprinting,also sprinting should affect ADS/Recoil,because when you run you became tired,so for a whille your ADS will be slower and recoil will be higher,until your stamina recover.

And for those who are crying now about movements,because its seems like "bloating" and a bit more slow,should search on Google about inertia.

Christ this got pretty cancerous.

@SouTaa @k0872 I really feel ya for this patch. It's not good imo.

Here's the thing. Movement is still fast and the ADS speed is still lightning quick. There's just one catch:

You literally cannot run anything at all besides your primary / secondary.

With low or no weight, the movement and ADS time is pretty much the same as before. However, with maxed weight you're practically sliding around on ice when trying to strafe (leading to the PUBG problem with trying to fit through doorways) yet you still stop on a dime, and your ADS time is about doubled. The only plus is "less recoil" with about a 15% recoil reduction, which just isn't worth it at all.

@jensiii said in run & gun still here:

@soutaa said in run & gun still here:

Movement is bad, slow (heavy carrier is useless now), ADS too slow (gives campers big advantage, you can't rush buildings at all now)

Do you mean you actually have to use tactics to assualt a building? 😉

Nice job insulting his argument without actually discussing anything.

I totally get where he's coming from. Before, SS felt more like Battlefield or something (with the ADS time and recoil, at least) but now it feels like some sort of PUBG / Escape From Tarkov hybrid to me, and I hate both of those games. The recoil is honestly insane, even for some weapons that should be laser beams like the Uzi. I was all for increasing recoil but the bumped horiz. and vert. recoil is insanity. I feel like pistols are currently better than most primary weapons.

The whole idea of Insurgency is that modding weapons should be a choice, not a requirement. Right now, it feels like you have to run a Compensator, Foregrip or both on pretty much everything in the game. At least, it does for me. I haven't played much, admittedly. I got fuckin pissed off after about 2-3 hours at how difficult it is to kill someone.

@soutaa said in run & gun still here:

@jensiii TACTICS 🦆 You see a guy (he's standing still shooting someone else), press mouse2 "Loading..." it brings up scope (he turns and starts shooting you) you're dead. It's ok for LMG's or snipers, but not for assault rifles with 1x 2x scopes, ffs, it's called assault rifle for a reason.

This is a pretty accurate summary. RIP anyone who mained Demolitions class.

@tooth-decay said in run & gun still here:

@soutaa Wow sounds like you actually have to use caution and can’t just charge the enemy COD style.

To be honest, you still have to charge the enemy CoD-style because long-range combat seems practically impossible. The new "high-quality" scopes somehow look worse and hurt performance more. Low quality looks ten times better. Kind of infuriates me since I'm often a sniper.

Using caution is impossible as well if you're super heavy. CQB is just so clunky and that's the exact opposite of what Insurgency should be. Ins2014 was slower-paced but the movement was smooth.

@lambda-unit said in run & gun still here:

Stop being a battlefield kiddie then. Welcome to insurgency.

Again, Sandstorm was closer to Battlefield before this patch. However, as a guy with about 1400 hours on Insurgency: Source currently, SS is nothing like Insurgency. Sure, recoil was bumped but that's basically the only similarity.

@mariuspetran said in run & gun still here:

And for those who are crying now about movements,because its seems like "bloating" and a bit more slow,should search on Google about inertia.

Yeah, because inertia causes you to slide off of things when moving left/right but you can stop on a dime with about 50 lbs of equipment no problem. That's definitely how inertia works.

I kinda agree speed should be limited more,but not decreased,its okay now,but acceleration time should be a bit longer in order to get maximum speed when sprinting,also sprinting should affect ADS/Recoil,because when you run you became tired,so for a whille your ADS will be slower and recoil will be higher,until your stamina recover.

That being said, somethin's gotta be done about this ADS bullshit.

First of all, your point about acceleration is really good. I think that should be a thing since it makes sense. You don't reach max speed in one second.

Imo, ADS time as well as recoil shouldn't have anything to do with weight because that quickly creates a meta if it isn't balanced correctly (which it currently isn't). Also, adjusting ADS speed and recoil based on player weight doesn't seem to fit the theme of Insurgency. I think a movement penalty is enough to warrant going lightweight.

I think it makes more sense to adjust ADS time based on the type of weapon you're currently using. By that logic, from fastest to slowest:

-> Pistols, because they're the easiest to bring up.

-> SMGs.

-> Carbines and underbarrel grenade launchers.

-> Assault rifles. Possibly shotguns as well.

-> Battle rifles and bolt-action rifles.

-> Light Machineguns and rocket launchers.

Also, this added sway is ridiculous. I feel like I'm drunk 24/7.

last edited by MarksmanMax

@marksmanmax said in run & gun still here:

Nice job insulting his argument without actually discussing anything.

The insult is in your head pal. Don't even try to turn my response into an insult in your imagination. He complained that he cannot rush buildings. I think you should not be able to blindly rush buildings. He doesn't even give any arguments in his post. It's just rant.

People should provide video so we could examine these situations more closely. It has been said many times before. But can you guess why they are not providing video?

@marksmanmax said in run & gun still here:

I think it makes more sense to adjust ADS time based on the type of weapon you're currently using. By that logic, from fastest to slowest:

-> Pistols, because they're the easiest to bring up.

-> SMGs.

-> Carbines and underbarrel grenade launchers.

-> Assault rifles. Possibly shotguns as well.

-> Battle rifles and bolt-action rifles.

-> Light Machineguns and rocket launchers.

I agree, this would make sense. A good suggestion.

@mariuspetran said in run & gun still here:

also sprinting should affect ADS/Recoil,because when you run you became tired,so for a whille your ADS will be slower and recoil will be higher,until your stamina recover.

+1

last edited by jensiii

@marksmanmax - This guy gets it. It's not about making it COD or BF (I would like BF ADS speeds tbh) It's the fcking engine. All UE4 engine games feel the same - clumsy movement, weird ADS, hit reg, assets, running feels like on ice... COD, BF, DOOM (quake champions) feels unique because they use their own engines. I know they can tweak it, cause it was better before this patch, but now these "veterans" 10000+ hour guys want to make this game slow and campy close quarters milsim.

last edited by SouTaa

@soutaa said in run & gun still here:

@marksmanmax - This guy gets it. It's not about making it COD or BF...

😃

I know they can tweak it, cause it was better before this patch, but now these "veterans" 10000+ hour guys want to make this game slow and campy close quarters milsim.

Lmao. As an Insurgency Veteran with 1400 hours, I don't exactly agree with a lot of other vets who want one-shot kills for every gun, for instance. It's just terrible from a design standpoint.

@jensiii said in run & gun still here:

@marksmanmax said in run & gun still here:

Nice job insulting his argument without actually discussing anything.

The insult is in your head pal. Don't even try to turn my response into an insult in your imagination.

@jensiii said in run & gun still here:

He complained that he cannot rush buildings. I think you should not be able to blindly rush buildings.

So why didn't you say this? That's a pretty solid point. Why say:

Do you mean you actually have to use tactics to assualt a building? 😉

Also:

He doesn't even give any arguments in his post. It's just rant.

You didn't give any arguments in that post, either lmao.

I've been using tactics to assault buildings in PvP from the start. Sure, weapons are highly lethal and a frontal assault can work out sometimes, but when you shoot everyone in the back your life is much easier.

I agree, this would make sense. A good suggestion.

I'll probably make this a separate forum post entirely, with another post on the new movement mechanics. I gotta check out this hotfix first though.

last edited by MarksmanMax

@jensiii said in run & gun still here:

People should provide video so we could examine these situations more closely. It has been said many times before. But can you guess why they are not providing video?

Also, atm I'm not providing any video evidence since the admin panel doesn't work in Local Play lmao.

In the Hotfix they said they fixed that, though, so I'll definitely be running some tests.

@marksmanmax said in run & gun still here:

So why didn't you say this? That's a pretty solid point.

It's actually such a solid point, that I thought it was obvious. That's why I didn't say it. But I should've.

You didn't give any arguments in that post, either lmao.

Yes, I did not give any arguments because I did not see the need to (and I still don't). I was assuming I don't have to start giving arguments against something like "unable to rush a building where defender is guarding the door I'm entering while I have my gun lowered". Maybe I shouldn't assume that either.

I'll probably make this a separate forum post entirely, with another post on the new movement mechanics. I gotta check out this hotfix first though.

I will check that post out when you post it 👍🏻

@jensiii said in run & gun still here:

@marksmanmax said in run & gun still here:

So why didn't you say this? That's a pretty solid point.

It's actually such a solid point, that I thought it was obvious. That's why I didn't say it. But I should've.

Hey, never assume lmao.

You didn't give any arguments in that post, either lmao.

Yes, I did not give any arguments because I did not see the need to (and I still don't). I was assuming I don't have to start giving arguments against something like "unable to rush a building where defender is guarding the door I'm entering while I have my gun lowered".

To be fair, that part is more like a statement or something and less like an argument. Personally, I'd say that if you're rushing a door someone's guarding you probably aren't rushing the right one.

I'll probably make this a separate forum post entirely, with another post on the new movement mechanics. I gotta check out this hotfix first though.

I will check that post out when you post it 👍🏻

Yeah, this'll probably happen tomorrow morning (assuming I'm up lol).

Also, I just realized today that the whole "inertia" thing that causes you to ice skate actually has zero to do with your weight. It only depends on what armor you're wearing, which is pretty dumb IMO.

last edited by MarksmanMax

Actually, ever since this hotfix I've been getting much less stuttering in the games I'm in and I'm actually kinda getting some FPS, so yay!

Tbh, the recoil is pretty harsh but it's closer to Ins2014 recoil. Not impossible to control or anything, so I'd say it's alright. Bots are still OP AF though. It's kinda nuts how they can just strafe-run and hipfire your ass from across the map.

Also, bots spam nades like candy now lmao. I once had three F1 Frags tossed at me simultaneously after engaging a group of bots.

My temp solution, I have just set up a hardcore server and tweaked the bots settings to make it impossible to live if you run and gun.

I enjoy the teamwork and co operation of a slower co ordinates game, if I could I would introduce stamina or limit sprint which could only help

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