Pace is too fast.

@cyoce said in Pace is too fast.:

@marksmanmax said in Pace is too fast.:

That being said, I wish you could vault up ledges that were a bit higher than the current vaultable objects, and I also wish that vaulting overall was a bit faster, considering crouch-jumping is faster and basically does the same thing. For that matter, I kinda also wish it was more clear when vaulting if you'd be able to shoot your gun or not but I'm not really sure how that would be done.

Vaulting is painfully slow and it has gotten me killed. Vaulting seems pretty much useless at the moment. Crouch jumping covers almost the same distance, and it doesn't disable your gun. I would crouch jump all the time if vault and jump weren't on the same key, forcing you to turn 180 degrees and jump backward to get on to something vaultable.

Whether or not you can shoot your gun could be clarified by completely lowering the gun when it isn't possible (on the long vaults, with the icon of an arrow going over a cube) and the gun staying leveled on short vaults (the ones with the arrow going on top of a cube icon)

Yeah, that would work fine IMO. I kinda want low vaults to be fuckin speedy and then the 2-handed vaults to be a tad faster than they are now.

Also, maybe just remove crouch-jumping entirely as it is kind of a dumb mechanic.

@marksmanmax Please don't remove crouch jumping. I'd rather vaulting be removed than crouch jumping. Vaulting is (and will always be to an extent) much glitchier than jumping. The amount of frustration caused by getting stuck in a vault animation that, as you soon realize, isn't even taking you where you want to go, far outways the slightly nonsensical nature of crouch jumping.

@cyoce said in Pace is too fast.:

@marksmanmax Please don't remove crouch jumping. I'd rather vaulting be removed than crouch jumping. Vaulting is (and will always be to an extent) much glitchier than jumping. The amount of frustration caused by getting stuck in a vault animation that, as you soon realize, isn't even taking you where you want to go, far outways the slightly nonsensical nature of crouch jumping.

Ehhhh... Yeah, good point I suppose. I don't wanna vault another window and then get stuck in some sandbags again lol.

@marksmanmax

I blow bots away while vaulting through windows all the time. I just hip fire.

This is a 'copy paste' from another post I made in a different thread but it fits in here too:

They do not to further reduce top speed, we need decent max top speed for big maps. I believe this is what the game needs:

  • Inertia (lose speed when changing direction)
  • Tagging/Stopping power (hit when moving slows you down very briefly)
  • Not being able to breach through a door at sonic speeds when sprint bashing it down
  • Further weight impacts ON ACCELERATION, NOT MAX TOP SPEED (So if you take items like heavy armor, RPG's, heavy carrier your TIME to reach max speed will be negatively impacted more than if you had a lighter load-out)

@cyoce I honestly think this is the best decision they should make.

@jarple said in Pace is too fast.:

  • Further weight impacts ON ACCELERATION, NOT MAX TOP SPEED (So if you take items like heavy armor, RPG's, heavy carrier your TIME to reach max speed will be negatively impacted more than if you had a lighter load-out)

I think weight should affect both acceleration and top speed. With the nearly-unlimited supply of loadout points we get right now and the absurdity of multi-shot spam tubes, heavy equipment needs a nerf.

@cyoce Right now, weight only affects top speed and I agree that weight should affect acceleration. However, they've already increased the negative impact that weight has on your move speed in a few previous patches. We'll just have to wait and see what changes they make then play it out. I'm hoping they introduce weight impacts acceleration and leave the top speed alone for a while. We don't want to be moving that slowly especially because the maps are quite big.

@Jarple

Hi, agree with your first 3 points, both inertia and tagging was present in Ins2, so I would be surprised if they dropped those.
Your point "Further weight impacts on acceleration, not max top speed" is very strange for me, it will both have the consequence of being a counter-intuitive mechanic as different weight loadout should lead to both different top speed and different acceleration. Both from a realism/intuition perspective and to reward players with a low weight loadout.

If you mainly play coop your needs regarding less weight impact will most probably be met by mods, as that was popular in Ins2 coop mods, in pvp "Further weight impacts on acceleration, not max top speed", seems like a strange decision that will badly impact pvp by giving much less reward for choosing a light loadout. So you want to be able to have the heavy guns, the heavy armor, the extra ammo and the same top speed? Why?

@pacalis said in Pace is too fast.:

Your point "Further weight impacts on acceleration, not max top speed" is very strange for me

I say this because every patch that weight further reduced move speed, acceleration was never reduced along side it. Since move speed has already been reduced a few times, acceleration needs to catch up (get lower).


Top speed-----BETA 1 : [0] |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| [1]
Accel-------------BETA 1 : [0] |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| [1]

Top speed-----BETA 2 : [0] ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||--------[1]
Accel-------------BETA 2 : [0] |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| [1]

Top speed-----BETA 2 : [0] ||||||||||||||||||||||---------------[1] (later on, after another patch)
Accel-------------BETA 2 : [0] |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| [1]

This is an example that is somewhat correct. You can see that only speed was changed, acceleration is left untouched.

It should of looked like this...

Top speed-----BETA 1 : [0] |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| [1]
Accel-------------BETA 1 : [0] |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| [1]

Top speed-----BETA 2 : [0] ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||--------[1]
Accel-------------BETA 2 : [0] ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||--------[1]

Top speed-----BETA 2 : [0] ||||||||||||||||||||||---------------[1] (some patch later)
Accel-------------BETA 2 : [0] ||||||||||||||||||||||---------------[1]

Acceleration and top speed are reduced together.


@pacalis said in Pace is too fast.:

both inertia and tagging was present in Ins2, so I would be surprised if they dropped those.

Yeh since the game is still in beta, they should implement these so we can play it out. Strange it wasn't already a thing on beta launch since it was in the first game.

@pacalis said in Pace is too fast.:

So you want to be able to have the heavy guns, the heavy armor, the extra ammo and the same top speed?

No no. I don't want this. Simply put, acceleration needs to be lowered overall and further reduced the more weight you're carrying. Currently, top speed is already being negatively impacted by weight, while acceleration isn't.

EDIT: @cyoce to help understand what I meant by my last point.

last edited by Jarple

I support the idea of reducing the players top speed and acceleration depending on the weight of the loadout !
Independent of the map ( big or small ) i prefer to have a movement speed and acceleration which is equivalent to the one in real life.

Sure this is no infantry simulator, in real life you cannot run with max speed and heavy loadout for so long time.
But i also would like to have a stamina system added which cutts off the max speed after a specific distance ( depending of your loadout weight ) and also blocks the next running for let´s say for 20 seconds.
That would reduce the overall running and gunning tactics of so many players which is NOT Team oriented gameplay but instead just selfish ( trying to get the capture points / points for destruction of the weapon cache ). This would raise the immersion and give a little reward for slower players who just run from cover to cover giving fire support for their teammates.

The bots need that adjustment too.

last edited by GSG_9_LIGHTNING

@jarple
Ah, thank you for clarifying, I misunderstood. Now I understand your 4. statement, seems we both want a realistic physics system.

I thought they wrote the coding so that acceleration, movement and weight already worked as dependables simulating mechanical physics already, If this was implemented, it might be difficult to change this, meaning if it would be against the laws the system is built around.

If we compare a player in Sandstorm to a car (friction, wind and all kinds of stuff ignored):
If you have one car, you can change the engine to a better one and get both higher top speed and acceleration. You can also reduce the weight of the car to achieve higher top speed and acceleration. In this game all the cars have the same engine (we can change all engines at once, but we always use identical engines in all the cars), but they can all have a different weight.

This means that if mechanical physics is used to simulate movements in the game, changing the acceleration should also change the top speed, as we can only either change the engine or reduce or increase weight to affect acceleration.

In other words, we change acceleration by adjusting the factors it depends upon. If we choose to change acceleration directly, we will automatically change either car weight or the engine at the same time as we cant't break the laws of physics.

If this is not implemented, and acceleration is not dependent, we have to manually make believable acceleration for all the 100 cars one by one as far as I understand.

I don't know how this is solved, could be an underlaying system in Unreal engine that NWI don't touch, an overlay system where NWI make it like they want it, or no system and 100 (just a random number) separate systems to simulate all the different possible weight loadouts.

It is interesting, so if you know more details it would be cool to learn more. I looked at:
https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-us/Gameplay/HowTo/CharacterMovement/Blueprints

I did not find anything related to different player weights, but just glanced through it.

last edited by Pacalis

IMO the worst thing right now is the fast pace as others have mentioned. However it is mostly player's fault.
In order to fix this, CPs in COOP should only be taken if at least 3/4 of the team is on point.

Also I have a feeling people rush in this game, so they can get the objective themselves resulting in higher points.
So capturing points / destorying objectives needs to give the player less points. It should be a lot more rewarding to kill enemies other than rushing forward bypassing enemies without killing them and leaving your teammates behind.
I can't list how many times teammates leave everyone behind and camp at the objective in a corner, while others are fighting the enemy.

Observers need to be rewarded for sticking with the Squad Leader and Squad Leaders need to be rewarded for calling in support. This way I won't have to spam the "I need an observer, hey can I get an observer, observer come 'ere."

All these suggestions were made because I believe this game is a lot more about teamwork, then just run & shoot.
Once all these issues are fixed and some optimizations will come with possibly more content, it'll be a perfect game.