Everything old Insurgency did better

Here is a list why I prefer the old Insurgency.

  1. Maps were smaller and way more realistic, Sandstorm maps like Hideout are just randomly placed buildings, well this is the worst one. But generally maps in old Ins felt way more real, like there could actually be people living there.

  2. Shaders are darker and more washed out, Sandstorm has too many colours and is too bright.

  3. Realistic looking characters. In old Ins you had no armor, medium armor and heavy armor, all looking pretty realistic from what they are wearing. In Sandstorm you get red tracksuits and different camouflage.

  4. Time to kill, come on just add AP rounds! its not a broken meta its a fun meta! you can pick any gun you like and be good with it. Now you gotta use the VAL if you want one hit kills...

  5. Voice lines, old ins had useful voicelines like area clear or flank left/right but hey, 8 different lines for calling a pickup that nobody uses seems great! Also Mikee probably made the best death sounds.

  6. Particles, they were huge and scary in old ins, you could actually supress someone with them, now they are some weak dust popping up, not scary at all.

  7. Sound may be pretty good but the hissing sound of bullets flying past and hitting objects around you are louder than the actual gunshot, it is so annoying once you notice it. just hearing this loud hissing and dying to a camper.

With the fast Time to kill you could push and play more agressively, now with the fast weapons not even being able to kill in one hit you have no chance against campers.
Honestly you guys messed it up so bad, i've been so exited for this game since the alpha.
The alpha gameplay looked so different! What the fuck did you guys do?? Did you listen to LevelcapGaming who said the game looks too dark?
Very disappointed since the beginning.
This could have been a better Insurgency.

last edited by Zayzek

@quackrejackt @Zayzek AGREE TO AGREE!!! I miss it all too and I still go back and play it to this day because it was my fav... just so sad I believed they were actually making a more polished (with updated engine and physics etc) Insurgency that would actually stay true to it’s Insurgency roots like originally advertised... It is very very soft now. MO.

Add: for the most part I have been able to get by most of this... for the most part... but it’s true I am in dire need of ambush or some sort of no respawn mode if I am going to be able to continue to play. Unfortunately for me even if that does come soon I’m sure they will make the dead able to communicate with the living which will kill it 100% for me... sucks to be me in these video game days and ages...

The heavy armor does look goofy when it's literally just a groin protector on the plate carrier. I think they could do some additional armor protection (delt protectors, collars) or different armor models outright and make the backpacks a lot smaller.

Definitely agreed on voice lines, but I can appreciate they wanted to keep the commo rose itself simple. I do think they could have added more voices by now too, or held a community contest to add more voices.

Hey time to kill is great in this game
One to two shots from full power rifle cartridges
1-4 from intermediate cartridges
2-5 from pistol cartridges

Honestly that seems both fair and true to the ballistics.
If anything they need to raise the ttk when wearing body armor due to the protective nature of the equipment.
If you’re being out gunned because of the circumstances you are using your gun in and it is inherently working against you, that is not the game’s fault. Blame the player not the game in that case.
One tapping everyone with any weapon is truly a broken system/mindset for how the game should be played.
Raising ttk for body armor against all cartridges except for 5.7, 7.62x51mm AP and any other AP rounds. Would help new players survive and provide a usefulness for the MP7

@Far-Seer
All you've just said are dmg against no-armor opponent. IMO it should be the stats for light armor.
No one said they want to one tapping everyone with any weapon and well, we used to one shot unarmored opponent in the source game. Personally I'd prefer the old damage model, for the armor are not worth taking in the current game.

@marsddd
Yes, thank you, I did mention damage with no armor.

  My comment did also include buffing armor so it is more useful against all calibers. It also helps buff the mp7 because it wouldn’t be affected by light armor (heavy armor is debatable). Nothing should save you from an explosive, Even with heavy armor because while the shrapnel may not hurt you the concussive force and pressure would. 

  First insurgency was good but it is completely different And it also had its flaws. Armor Piercing (AP) bullets are the equivalent of stopping power from another game, and it carries with it all the problems from the other game. The problem stated is that in order to win any firefight in which you don’t start shooting first is to have AP and even if you did shoot first you could still lose the firefight from super bullets presented as AP. Alas AP Bullets ARE in the game for dedicated weapons, as it should be, for marksmen and Gunner as well as the MP7

AP bullets are not common in military, Ball ammo is. It is more cost effective and is sufficient for its duty. (Side note: Considering Hollow Points are banned internationally, even in the United States for private sale, they are not present in the game.)

Old insurgency did some things better including; having more maps (for now), and optimization (Source engine, its inherent but it is also a temporary advantage source has to current gen insurgency as optimization is coming soon).

 For me that is all the advantages old insurgency has, it is more of a nostalgia effect with current opinions. A new NWI game may be released and people will complain that insurgency sandstorm did “it” “better”

 For the past years many games have released With lack of content, botched, broken and almost unplayable. Some honorable mentions; ES sky rim (PC), BF 4, BBCompany 2, BFront 1&2, BFV.

 I believe this game had its issues, sure, but considering it’s their first Unreal title I give them a little more leniency. All this boils down to is entitlement, we get free content for almost the life of this title!

@Far-Seer I disagree whole heartedly about TTK and think if they raise it at all would be a tragedy. You want to raise the amount of bullets a person can take for new players? That is very silly they should learn to play the game as intended. The game is meant to be lethal or at least it used to be especially more in old Insurgency but regardless from a realism point of view even if a person might live after taking 1 or 2 rounds of .556 or any caliber for that matter they are going to be unable to function properly in any manner with or without armour. Take a look at videos online of what bullets do to modern armour plates... they fuck them up... sure maybe not always penetrating but the force and the energy from impact we are taking at the very least extremely winded broken bones internal bleeding etc... This game is already soft in comparison to old school Insurgency please don’t try to completely childproof the game with nonsense of raising TTK even more..!

@Far-Seer Oh and by the by I can buy hollow tip here in Canadian so.... ya...

last edited by planetcanada

All in all they messed it up so bad they would have to change key game elements to make it good and they will never do it.
This is also why the game will die out, Sandstorm is getting more and more like mainstream games and players will realize that games like CoD makes more sense to play content wise.
Insurgency has something special that you can't just get in another game.

Why am I even trying to convince these devs to listen to their old fans, they probably don't even read the stuff on this forum anymore.

last edited by Zayzek

@Zayzek Eh Men brother! Lmao you said it well in those two post there the gaming industry is changing so goddamn much and it’s just not good for me at all I am a minority I think... sad to see... I am happy with squad and I love realism to an extreme doesn’t have to be perfect it never will but oh how I miss the days of “America’s Army” not the newer one but the older one where I spent several hours or what ever studying to pass a bunch of tests required just to play the damn game pvp not to mention the fact that you could loook at the person beside yous’ paper and get kicked out for cheating lmfao. But I truly miss those days bullets were deadly and healing a person as a medic took a bit of time... squad takes too long and I don’t have time these days that’s what I absolutely loved about Insurgency of old because it was lethal and gave you a feel of realism and something I took pretty serious at times yet I could still jump in and out I didn’t have to dedicate half a day to really get some momentum flowing and what not anyways I just realized I’m rambling probably and have had a few. I just get sad with the current state of (InsurgencySS/videogameindustry) in general!! I could over look a lot of things if they would just give me ambush for goddamn fucking sakes... Lol have a good one!!

@planetcanada hey congrats on your hollow points, I can purchase pistols and rifles with no magazine capacities here in the US and I prefer to use ball ammo
Also ttk should be raised if using armor
Varying Armor levels can stop 5.56 and 7.62x39 (intermediate cartridges) and even rifle cartridges, maybe instead of me doing research on what 5.56 can do to a person you research armor levels and how they can stop penetration from varying cartridges.
One or two bullets more wont make too much of a difference

@Far-Seer (me)“ Take a look at videos online of what bullets do to modern armour plates... they fuck them up... sure maybe not always penetrating but the force and the energy from impact we are taking at the very least extremely winded/broken bones internal bleeding etc... ”

You are fucking stunned... did you even read what I typed I said for you to research what those bullets do to that (godlike) armour and think of what that would still do to the person behind it as I have researched it fool and you are clearly delusional if you think that one or two more rounds to said plate(s) would have little affect on a person ffs man give your head a shake you must be mistaking your ball ammo for air soft pellets...

@Zayzek

about point 7. I think they intentionally made them super loud, to make it sound more scary. But I agree they're too loud, you can't even hear the normal gunshots anymore and that shouldn't be the case.

Btw, the discussion of decreasing lethality of bullets is a very bad idea for this game, the whole point is that you need to think before you move, bad moves are punished. If you take this away it literally becomes cod, you can just run around unpunished. The pace will get so insanely high and it already is.

last edited by ImTimKlonker

I also don't agree with an increase in TTK. .....they shouldn't. Insurgency is supposed to be more hardcore than other more casual shooters. If enemies become too spongy, I don't know how well it will do on console when it releases as others said, there are games out there that do it better then NWI.

...btw, I gotta laugh sometimes when people talk about Insurgency becoming too much like CoD. Everyone automatically thinks about the core gameplay with the bullet sponge damage model but they fail to realize that it also has a Hardcore option to play all of the game modes too.

In HC MW, enemies will die in 1-2 shots with most rifles and 1 shot with most sniper rifles. SMGs and pistols will take a round or two more IIRC. That TTK only increases when shooting through cover (depending on the material) and outside of a weapons effective range.

TTK is very lethal in CoD:MW. It also has no markers except for when UAVs, kill streak rewards that show positions are active for a short time and (funny enough) no "death cam" like Insurgency has now. There are also modes with one life for each player.

Increasing the TTK in Sandstorm would be a horrible idea IMO. I also agree with the above that a lower TTK helps promote unit tactics since people will be less hesitant to expose themselves to suppressive fire, open areas, etc. A higher TTK encourages run and gun tactics / riskier moves since players can absorb more damage.

IMO, Sandstorm needs to be lethal or it will lose that aspect of gameplay that makes it more unique. Personally, I don't even feel they should have added the death cam. I understand their reasoning but I don't agree with it.

Sandstorm maps are dog shit. Sorry, there are a few i like like Summit and Power plant. Hillside is a joke. how can you take an amazing map like sinjar which was perfect from ins mc and ins, and you just absolutely fuck it up like that.

I dont understand why the map pool is so shallow either, why the hell havent they added the classic maps from mc or ins? Why are we getting half baked mashed together maps that are shallow and boring as hell.

Sandstorms colour pallet is horrendous, its like the brown and bloom filter with overexposure all over again, it's like we have went back 10 years. Shadows and shading are massively lacking.

The devs removed ap ammo as they didnt like the ap meta, but now they've made the 7.62x54 meta which is fucking boring, atleast with ap ammo i could make a useless gun fun, good luck having fun putting 6 rounds into some dude for him to 180 on you and juan tap you with his fal or tavor.

Insurgency has always had a insanely fast TTK. Every weapon should be lethal when used correctly, changing the ttk and making it slower would ruin the game, its insurgency not counter strike global offensive, bullets are meant to kill you in a few shots, you aren't suppose to soak up 10 rounds.

Oh by the way the devs don't listen to this community on their own forums, they only visit reddit and to find out what they should do next they use buzzword meta searches to find the most used words in a period.

No wonder they havent fixed any of the glaring issues which have killed the game off, lets just keep adding stupidly overpriced weapons which all go to one or two fucking classes, lets not add anything new or exciting like more indepth customisation of weapons, additional weapon configurations, additional pistol ammo and pistol accessories. Lets add in 3 M4 clones and a few FAL clones, lets just completely fucking ignore shotguns, lets completely ignore snipers and dmrs. durrr.

last edited by Depleted

@Zayzek said in Everything old Insurgency did better:

Maps were smaller and way more realistic, Sandstorm maps like Hideout are just randomly placed buildings, well this is the worst one. But generally maps in old Ins felt way more real, like there could actually be people living there.

Have to agree here. Just look at Ministry on both games. Apparently, the map in 2014 was based on an actual ministry and the sizes actually line up, so it doesn't make any sense in Sandstorm why some areas are opened up so much.

Shaders are darker and more washed out, Sandstorm has too many colours and is too bright.

Fun fact: Increasing the saturation levels to 100% doesn't always make the game look better lmao. For mil-sim-style games, it often contradicts the game's theme.

Realistic looking characters. In old Ins you had no armor, medium armor and heavy armor, all looking pretty realistic from what they are wearing. In Sandstorm you get red tracksuits and different camouflage.

I do like the customization but it is pretty meme-worthy. Ultimately, the meta is to wear whatever actually blends into the environment, and Insurgents are pretty shafted on that.

I also dislike how I can make my Security character look pretty close to an Insurgent in Hardcore Checkpoint. You can use it to abuse damage reflection and get teammates killed easily.

Time to kill, come on just add AP rounds! its not a broken meta its a fun meta! you can pick any gun you like and be good with it. Now you gotta use the VAL if you want one hit kills...

Well, no. AP was absolutely broken, but then again, Insurgency: Source wasn't designed for Competitive to begin with. It was fun as hell, though, especially since you could use whatever you wanted and curbstomp people with it. Now the meta is to only use specific guns like the FAL, SVD, VHS-2, M14 EBR, and shotguns (not sure if the VHS is actually a meta weapon but it should be IMO since it's just an MP7 with considerably shorter TTK in CQB).

I'm also assuming you probably meant the SVD and not the ASVAL considering the VAL is a guaranteed three-shot kill lmao. It's a slightly better MP7.

Voice lines, old ins had useful voicelines like area clear or flank left/right but hey, 8 different lines for calling a pickup that nobody uses seems great! Also Mikee probably made the best death sounds.

You simply can't beat Mikee's voice acting lmao. That being said, I don't really have any complaints about the voice lines apart from the fact that there needs to be more. I didn't play this game for nearly a year and there really aren't any new voice actors?

Particles, they were huge and scary in old ins, you could actually supress someone with them, now they are some weak dust popping up, not scary at all.

Just getting shot at in general was actually scary in Source. In Sandstorm suppression basically doesn't do anything to you, especially in Coop when it really doesn't matter how many bots are firing at you; just stand still and use Focus and GG you have no sway at all.

Focus is honestly far too strong in Sandstorm but its the only way to make some guns (i.e. AMR) even viable at all.

Sound may be pretty good but the hissing sound of bullets flying past and hitting objects around you are louder than the actual gunshot, it is so annoying once you notice it. just hearing this loud hissing and dying to a camper.

Sound in this game is pretty solid IMO. I hate the ASVAL's firing sounds though; it just sounds like a peashooter. To be fair, it is a peashooter lmao. Apparently 9x39mm AP does less damage than 9x19 out of a Glock 17; sure, maybe that's the only way they can balance the gun but if they couldn't balance it in a realistic way they should've thought about that before adding it to the damn game.

In general, subsonic weapons that are suppressed need more bass to the sound; otherwise, it sounds like an airsoft gun.

...now with the fast weapons not even being able to kill in one hit you have no chance against campers.

Just played some Push matches and the game's so campy it's not even remotely fun to play. I only had fun sneaking around and basically being a camper myself.

TL;DR Ins2014 is still better. Sure, Insurgency: Source was developed for four years, but if that means Sandstorm won't be fixed until 2022 then I'll pass.

last edited by MarksmanMax