AMMO-PIERCING (AP) ROUND

It should be included in Sandstorm, of course! But...

  • It should be expensive/difficult to acquire.
  • It should be exclusive for certain types of weapons.
  • Its ammo capacity should be inferior compared to other calibers.
last edited by 1v4n94

Go to YouTube and watch NWI's last live stream with one of the devs. He answers a question about AP ammo which made alot of sense. I'll try and find the link again and post it here

last edited by Chrollo283

@chrollo283 said in AMMO-PIERCING (AP) ROUND:

Go to YouTube and watch NWI's last live stream with one of the devs. He answers a question about AP ammo which made alot of sense. I'll try and find the link again and post it here

Yes. I was actually seeing that video before posting this thread here. I just added my thoughts on it. Thanks for the link anyways! ☺

MOre specifically, I believe it's at the 29 minute mark where the subject of AP ammo and TTK is addressed at length by Mikee and Alex.

Long story short..... AP ammo became the meta in Ins so after careful consideration they decided to get rid of it. Some weapons still have this feature baked in though but balanced. They seem satisfied with TTK at the moment but they are still focusing on armor as they don't want that to follow in the APs footsteps (becoming the new meta). They are focusing on the armor to balance the damage.

With the amount of people demanding to have INS:Source's TTK back, I'm sure they'll eventually nerf armor to the point of uselessness and the game will basically become INS:Source again.

NWI has no spine when dealing with feedback.

Here's hoping they don't. The TTK right now is perfectly fine, just instead of it always being 1 bullet, its now like 3 or 4. If anyone is having problems with it they should just learn to aim lol. But seriously though going back to Insurgency Source will be a huge step backwards for the development of this awsome game.

@chrollo283 The problem is the same 4-5 people keeping shouting everyone else down on the forums because they want this game to be exactly like some other game they played where people died with one bullet...

@amurka well, if the bullet goes straight to the head, it should be a one-hit kill, so....

And, just to clarify, we already have CSGO to play "competitively" and unrealistically.

last edited by 1v4n94

@1v4n94 said in AMMO-PIERCING (AP) ROUND:

@amurka
And, just to clarify, we already have CSGO to play "competitively" and unrealistically.

As long as damage is realistic, I don't mind not having ammo-piercing rounds, really.

Ohh... and another thing; I don't want AP rounds to be a "Security-exclusive" thing. I want the game to be perfectly balanced, as all things... bla bla.

last edited by 1v4n94

What is the point of having an "optional" thing that everyone is going to use?

@amurka
Yeah I hear what your saying, it just frustrates me that people don't want this game to move forward. I loved the original Insurgency, even at one point making the claim it was the best PC shooter on the market. BUT we need to move forward. It's like when people get pissy that they can't run a brand new game at max settings on a 10yr old PC or a $400 laptop and demanding the devs do something about that. Now I'm just ranting lol

The use of heavy armor is more valuable if AP is cancelled."one shoot one kill"It sounds good to become history.

1 hit by a bullet to the upper chest should kill you, esp. if its an assault rifle round or larger. (Any caliber round to the head should also kill you obviously)

Body armour should ofcourse provide protection however, so perhaps a 25% dmg reduction from light armour and 50% from heavy armor to the places they cover would be appropriate.

Other than that I would like damages done to follow a rule sorta like this:

Character Health = 100 dmg

Damage of different calibers:
Full rifle calibers = 125 dmg
AR calibers = 100 dmg
Pistol calibers = 65 dmg

Body part dmg modifiers (100% is normal dmg):
Head = 150%
Upper chest = 100%
Stomach + groin = 75%
Arms + Legs = 50%

Body armour modifiers:
Light armour = -25% (upper chest & stomach)
Heavy armour = -50% (upper chest, stomach & groin)

This would give a very realistic yet balanced and great feel IMHO, esp. if vital 150% dmg zones beyond just the head are added, like for example the heart or spine.

We definitely don't want the arcade CoD/BF style lethality where it takes on average 3-4 hits with an AR to kill someone, that would just kill the lure of this game IMHO.

@wolfram said in AMMO-PIERCING (AP) ROUND:

1 hit by a bullet to the upper chest should kill you, esp. if its an assault rifle round or larger. (Any caliber round to the head should also kill you obviously)

Agree with this when talking about unarmored target.

Body armour should ofcourse provide protection however, so perhaps a 25% dmg reduction from light armour and 50% from heavy armor to the places they cover would be appropriate.

Other than that I would like damages done to follow a rule sorta like this:

Character Health = 100 dmg

Damage of different calibers:
Full rifle calibers = 125 dmg
AR calibers = 100 dmg
Pistol calibers = 65 dmg

Body part dmg modifiers (100% is normal dmg):
Head = 150%
Upper chest = 100%
Stomach + groin = 75%
Arms + Legs = 50%

Body armour modifiers:
Light armour = -25% (upper chest & stomach)
Heavy armour = -50% (upper chest, stomach & groin)

This would give a very realistic yet balanced and great feel IMHO, esp. if vital 150% dmg zones beyond just the head are added, like for example the heart or spine.

I think you are on the right track. IMO best suggestion so far has been from @thehappybub in another thread (sorry for not linking it right now, I can do it later if you want though)

A good idea is to have the AP values built into the weapons, because it helps weapon and armor balancing. So I'm not supporting the idea of bringin AP back at all.

Commenting your example: I think the armor modifiers should make a noticeable difference between light and heavy armor. In my opinion light armor doesn't have to be able to stop AR rounds, just protect from lighter weapons and shrapnel. Heavy armor is the choice for stopping AR. So noticeably bigger stopping power for heavy armor, then tweak points & movement penalty and add proper tagging, and it's in a good balance: provis better protection, but slows you down and tagging makes sure you still can't cross an open area that is guarded.

We definitely don't want the arcade CoD/BF style lethality where it takes on average 3-4 hits with an AR to kill someone, that would just kill the lure of this game IMHO.

I been active on the forum for some time now and I am seeing that this is not what 99% players here are after for. The main disagreement seems to be about armor effectiveness. If armor is not effective at all, that would surely kill the lure for me. It wouldn't be believable.

@wolfram I also think ur on the right track, though I'd take it a step further and say that (1) armors should only reduce damage for the specific calibers they're designed for (so rifle rounds would ignore light armor) and (2) instead of damage reduction it should be complete mitigation until the health of the armor plate is depleted after which it breaks and provides no additional protection.

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