New damage models are horrendously broken

I'm not sure what happened but a large number of guns are giving me nonsensical behavior after yesterday's patch. Based on playtesting both online and offline I've found that 5.45, 5.56, 7.62x39, and 7.62x51 all kill with two shots to the torso regardless of armor. I've also seen 7.62x54r and armor piercing produce 2-shot kills which I hope were hitreg failures.

The patch notes described a "slight nerf" to both armor types but what we have is a complete nullification of armor and a homogenization of most ammo calibers.

but isn't that a good thing everyone in this forum keeps complaining that the ttk is too high so now everything kills in 2 hits (im being sarcastic)

last edited by Strawberrynim

Imho it's a step in the right direction. The next step would be to make all guns 1 hit kill on unarmored targets, to make the armor meaningful again. I think that would be a good compromise where you don't feel like you have to have armor to compete, because it's still pretty weak, but at least there are some situations where you might be happy if you bought the armor (namely all the time between the first hit you take and the next hit you take, because that's what you'd get in return for buying a vest).

I've played a few rounds now without armor, and I have had more than one engagement where I took a hit and then killed the attacker. Once that even was a situation where I was unaware of the other player. He snuck up on me with a pistol, shot at me and hit me once, and I turned around and killed him. If I had been wearing armor, ok. But without armor I think this is bad, and I'm sure the guy that I shot would agree. After all he had every advantage on his side. He made no tactical mistake, his aim just wasn't good enough to "out-dps-me". I think he was even wearing armor, but I didn't stop to check fo sure. Might have been a carrier vest.

Maybe heavy armor should be more effective at longer ranges against automatics. It should definitely provide some protection against lower caliber weapons.

We are headed in the right direction.

The armors should not make difference at close to mid range.

last edited by Nick Kim

NWI, go all the way and remove armor entirely.

Then make the guns 1 shot 1 kill.

You don't want everyone using AP like stopping power, so you remove it, but you DON'T remove what it exists to counter in the first place - Armor (hence the name "armor piercing" rounds.).

I think there needs to be some variation in how many shots it takes to kill, even when shooting straight at the torso at no angle and not through any terrain- would reduce the meaningfulness of different weapon choices otherwise.

I sorely hope you're all wrong and that this is not a deliberate game design. NWI intended for heavy armor to consume 3 points and slow you down while accomplishing nothing? No, this must be a bug.

A great deal of depth is lost by making all of the rifles the same high lethality. From now on there will be no sense in choosing anything besides the fastest firing, lowest recoil guns and running around naked.

We are already returning to the campfest that Insurgency 2 was. It is not fun. I don't want to see this promising game smothered by a bunch of nostalgia-drunk gatekeeping fanboys.

1 shots for headshots+bolts vs. everything
2 shots chest vs. no armor, 3-4 for pistols
3 shots high caliber vs light/heavy
4-5 shots medium caliber vs. light/heavy

balance armors by speed+cost.

@grotesqueshadow

He made no tactical mistake, his aim just wasn't good enough to "out-dps-me".

....and you literally want to not punish bad aim?

Why do people want an easy game? I don't get it.

@benz said in New damage models are horrendously broken:

@grotesqueshadow

He made no tactical mistake, his aim just wasn't good enough to "out-dps-me".

....and you literally want to not punish bad aim?

Why do people want an easy game? I don't get it.

Yes, I've explained before why I want that particular skill ceiling among several skill ceilings in the game lowered, I won't do it again. It was in my long post that got ~30 upvotes, first page in the locked ttk thread. It's about Insurgency maintaining its identity and setting itself apart from all the other shooters. If you don't agree that's fine.

@doghead said in New damage models are horrendously broken:

I sorely hope you're all wrong and that this is not a deliberate game design. NWI intended for heavy armor to consume 3 points and slow you down while accomplishing nothing? No, this must be a bug.

Heavy Armor is still surprisingly effective even with the slow down. You still pretty much run fast with that thing and allow yourself to take up bullets like a bullet sponge.

Light armor is almost useless when you're given the fact that heavy armor still gives you decent mobility to make you effective in the battlefield.

@derpydays said in New damage models are horrendously broken:

Heavy Armor is still surprisingly effective even with the slow down. You still pretty much run fast with that thing and allow yourself to take up bullets like a bullet sponge.

That was true before the patch, now it isn't. As I said in OP 2 shots will kill regardless of armor being equipped or not.

Heavy armor does nothing. I don't know how to word this any more clearly.

last edited by Doghead

@doghead said in New damage models are horrendously broken:

I sorely hope you're all wrong and that this is not a deliberate game design. NWI intended for heavy armor to consume 3 points and slow you down while accomplishing nothing? No, this must be a bug.

A great deal of depth is lost by making all of the rifles the same high lethality. From now on there will be no sense in choosing anything besides the fastest firing, lowest recoil guns and running around naked.

We are already returning to the campfest that Insurgency 2 was. It is not fun. I don't want to see this promising game smothered by a bunch of nostalgia-drunk gatekeeping fanboys.

If you think run and gun gameplay that places emphasis on twitch reflexes is a good time insurgency isn't the franchise for you

@lambda-unit A shooter rewarding good reflexes, how horrible.

I'm not asking for a COD clone.

Genuinely, I feel like AP/HP rounds should of been kept in the first place really.

Because if the damage model is purposely setup like this, then I see no point of adding armor in the game and making it standardized for all.

Why remove AP/HP rounds to go against the armor's weaknesses and allow the ability to customize armor still when the damage model is just gonna be the same for all armor types regardless of what they are?

Why do the damage models have to be standardized to be almost the same when they were different in Insurgency Source?

It doesn't make sense at all. I get it that NWI removed it for "stopping power" like reasons but trying to substitute the removal of AP/HP rounds with just general standardization regardless of ammo type just doesn't even cut it all.

@slazenger said in New damage models are horrendously broken:

You don't want everyone using AP like stopping power, so you remove it, but you DON'T remove what it exists to counter in the first place - Armor (hence the name "armor piercing" rounds.).

I guess they wanted the actual weapon calibers to take more of a play here, but then we go back to OP saying how it's not working properly. In a sense, isn't 5.56 ammo already armor penetrating and 7.62 ammo already made to have high stopping power?

I also have a problem with the damage. No mater the armor, any one hit on the torso will put a subject down. If it is a hit on the trauma plates front or rear the target is going down. if it is not stopped by a plate the targets vest will be penetrated by almost any rifle round. Light Smg and pistol rounds might not get through body armor but the victim will be down at least for a short time but not out. When someone is shot they should react and nonfatal hits would let the subject get back in the fight. when a bot or player gets hit they should react to the hit not stand there toe to toe and blasé away. John Kennedy retired weapons and tactics instructor.

If you think run and gun gameplay that places emphasis on twitch reflexes is a good time insurgency isn't the franchise for you

1-hit kills put a HUGE emphasis on reflexes.

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